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Kraken
Federated Suns
Marshal
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2755
Location: United States
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 Posted: 30-Mar-2007 15:16 Post subject: AC/2 vs. LRM 15 |
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I was contemplating this earlier.
One of the NPCs in my campaign is going to be piloting a modified Axeman.
I disliked the fact that it had three mediums in the same arm as its axe, so I decided to move two of them to the torso (one rear-firing).
In the process, a thought hit me.
If I were to drop the LRM 15s, I could have sufficient tonnage for two AC/2s and give a second bin of ammo to each one. As a result, I could carry both standard ammo and some of the specialty ammo (like armor-piercing or incindiary). I'd gain a little bit of range, and the internals wouldn't be so cluttered. I would lose punch, however, and I'd also need to sacrifice half a ton somewhere to make room for a CASE since I'd be shifting some ammo to the right torso.
Does it sound like an idea, or should I stick with the LRM 15s?
Thanks.
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"I wish I could write as mysterious as a cat." -Edgar Allen Poe"I knew there was something special about you, but I never realized you were really a cat." Wolfwood to a random cat (Trigun)
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 8072
Location: United States
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| Posted: 30-Mar-2007 19:42 Post subject: |
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Why would anyone replace anything with an AC2? 
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www.210sportsblog.com
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CO_17thRecon
Kell Hounds
Major
Joined: 10-Sep-2002 00:00
Posts: 1297
Location: United States
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| Posted: 30-Mar-2007 21:11 Post subject: |
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It's a style thing really, but for brute firepower, the LRM-15s definitely win. I'd say replace something more medium range, and maybe just one rack. After all, an Axeman should be closing quickly if possible.
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Jarylan Blackwell
"What the...?! Where did you get THAT?!"
"Creative aquisition."
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Stinger
The Knights of Chaos
General
Joined: 30-Apr-2002 00:00
Posts: 1833
Location: United States
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| Posted: 30-Mar-2007 22:40 Post subject: |
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I ahve to agree. Ac - 2's and axemans dont mix. its a close in fighter, and should be armed as such. I would say drop the LRM 15 for a LG laser and a SSRM 2 or 4 with a ton of ammo. Would be a nasty surprise for anyone and give you better more consistent short and medium range punch. Which is the Axemans forte, the Extra ammo just makes it to dangerous for critals even with the case.
And I would also NOT put a medium laser rear faceing. Sorry but I hate rear faceing weapons, on anything less than 80 tons. They are a real waste imo. Close in fighters should be trying to deal as much damage as possible.
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Stinger
If it's "creepy" to use the Internet, military satellites, and robot aircraft to find a house full of gorgeous young models so I can drop in on them unexpected, then FINE, I'm "creepy". Howard Wolowitz. BBT.
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AWAD
Draconis Combine
Chu-sa
Joined: 06-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 766
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| Posted: 31-Mar-2007 01:17 Post subject: |
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Keep the 15 racks. Gives good damage at long range as you move into range with Axe and Short Range Weapons.
AWAD- Do not forget LRM carry some special ammo also
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SaberDance
Federated Suns
Colonel
Joined: 07-May-2004 00:00
Posts: 837
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| Posted: 31-Mar-2007 15:16 Post subject: |
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I'm with Chihawk on this. Why would you ever put a plink gun on anything?
And particularly on an Axeman, who's LRM15 is a questionable choice anyway. (Though I tend to give it the benefit of the doubt as a "range-closing" weapon.)
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WhizzbangThePowerSquig
Royal Black Watch Regiment
Master Sergeant
Joined: 21-Mar-2005 00:00
Posts: 345
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 10-Apr-2007 10:25 Post subject: |
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I've never been a big fan of fitting a mech who's main purpose is to smash stuff with long-range weapons. Sure, it can hit things on the way in, but as soon as you get close enough to use the axe, the LRMs are basically useless. Use the other axeman, the one with the AC20 on it's shoulder. At least, that's what I'd do...
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All fear Squiggy!
"I've never seen anything this beautiful in the entire galaxy - okay, give me the bomb." - Ultra Magnus
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Sir Henry
Team Bansai
Senior Tech Specialist
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4899
Location: United States
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| Posted: 13-Apr-2007 14:33 Post subject: |
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It all depends on the mission. If you know that will be no Close in fighting work then it's fine to use the AC-2's
If you do know that then why take an Axeman?
I Like AC-2's I use them to Snipe.
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Sir Henry
A Dragon in the disguise of a bunny, is still a Dragon.
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CO_17thRecon
Kell Hounds
Major
Joined: 10-Sep-2002 00:00
Posts: 1297
Location: United States
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| Posted: 13-Apr-2007 17:08 Post subject: |
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| Sir Henry wrote: | | I Like AC-2's I use them to Snipe. |
It's a great harassment weapon, especially if they can't get to you easily. You can harass them until they finally break formation, and give you your opening. On the other hand, it's not a very good duelist's weapon.
Pikes can be fun vehicles to use. 8)
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Jarylan Blackwell
"What the...?! Where did you get THAT?!"
"Creative aquisition."
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DarkAdder
Clan Star Adder
Star Commander
Joined: 10-Jan-2004 00:00
Posts: 604
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| Posted: 13-Apr-2007 22:23 Post subject: |
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AC2's do their best as sniper weapons. 'Best' being a relative term, when you look at the paltry damage that they do. However, with the exotic ordinance available, they can be anything from a minor nuisance to a genuine pain in the ass.
I dont feel that they fit with the Axeman, though. To me, the Axeman was made to move in close, and beat the stuffings out of the target. Beginning, middle, end. The LRMs work passably with the design, as they can sand the armor off the target, opening up some rather mean gaps for the axe to exploit. And again, using variable ordinance can give your opponent a migraine even before you start taking swings with your close in weapon.
As an aside, does anyone know if there was an Axeman fitted with an LB-20X? I know that one of the Axeman models mounted a standard AC20, but my memory fails as to if an LBX variant was created.
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Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
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Rudel Gurken
Allisters Light Thunder
Major
Joined: 15-Jun-2005 00:00
Posts: 1456
Location: Germany
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| Posted: 14-Apr-2007 01:32 Post subject: |
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| DarkAdder wrote: |
...
As an aside, does anyone know if there was an Axeman fitted with an LB-20X? I know that one of the Axeman models mounted a standard AC20, but my memory fails as to if an LBX variant was created. |
This is from the "Upgrades":
EDIT: Fluff is from the -2N!
| Code: |
BattleMech Technical Readout
Type/Model: Axman AXM-3S
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3062
Config: Biped BattleMech
Rules: Level 2, Standard design
Mass: 65 tons
Chassis: Dorwinion Standard
Power Plant: 260 Magna Light Fusion
Walking Speed: 43,2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64,8 km/h
Jump Jets: 4 HildCo Model 12 Standard Jump Jets
Jump Capacity: 120 meters
Armor Type: Kallon Unity Weave w. CASE Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
3 ER Medium Lasers
1 LB 20-X AC
1 Guardian ECM
Manufacturer: Johnston Industries
Location: New Syrtis
Communications System: Johnston Wide Band
Targeting & Tracking System: Rander Pinpoint-HY
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
==Overview:==
The first Axman 'Mechs suffered problems with their mammoth Luxor
Devastator-20 Autocannon, which served as the primary weapon on the machine.
In response to this problem, Banzai replaced the autocannon with two LRM-15
racks on the AXM-2N version.
Banzai Weapon Design's AXM-1 N Axman, manufactured at Johnston
Industries' New Syrtis plant, combines devastating firepower, excellent armor
protection and good maneuverability in a single BattleMech design. Intended
for widespread deployment throughout the Federated Commonwealth, the Axman
contains weapons and equipment from throughout Davion and Steiner space, as
well as the Sarna March and the St. Ives Compact. Officially, this approach
reflects an attempt by Banzai's designers to create a BattleMech that all of
the Federated Commonwealth's MechWarriors can point to with pride, no matter
what their regional loyalty-although some cynical observers believe the
Axman's designers are simply attempting to generate ample Federated
Commonwealth contracts for the design by providing manufacturing work to
numerous firms.
Regardless of their intentions, Banzai's designers have created a
superior 'Mech. Equipped with ten tons of Kallon Unity Weave ferro-fibrous
armor from a former Liao factory in the Sarna March and four HildCo Model 12
jump jets from the St. Ives Compact, the Axman possesses ample armor
protection and maneuverability. And the Axman's Luxor Devastator-20
autocannon, Sutel Precision large pulse laser and three Intek medium lasers
give the machine truly awesome firepower. Additionally, the Axman's signature
arm-mounted hatchet provides the 'Mech with an intimidating and effective
close-range weapon.
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Axman AXM-3S
Mass: 65 tons
Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 104 pts Standard 0 6,50
Engine: 260 Light Fusion 10 10,50
Walking MP: 4
Running MP: 6
Jumping MP: 4
Heat Sinks: 10 Double [20] 0 ,00
Gyro: 4 3,00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3,00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA R: Sh+UA+LA+H 15 ,00
Armor Factor: 179 pts Ferro-Fibrous 14 10,00
(Armor Crit Loc: 1 HD, 6 LA, 3 RA, 3 LT, 1 RT)
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 21 28
Center Torso (Rear): 6
L/R Side Torso: 15 21/21
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 6/6
L/R Arm: 10 17/17
L/R Leg: 15 24/24
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
3 ER Medium Lasers LA 15 3 3,00
1 LB 20-X AC RT 6 20 15 18,00
(Ammo Locations: 4 LT)
1 Guardian ECM LT 0 2 1,50
CASE Equipment: LT 1 ,50
1 Hatchet RH 5 5,00
4 Standard Jump Jets: 4 4,00
(Jump Jet Loc: 2 LL, 2 RL)
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 21 78 65,00
Crits & Tons Left: 0 ,00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 10.806.180 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1.499
Cost per BV: 7.208,93
Weapon Value: 1.400 / 1.400 (Ratio = ,93 / ,93)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 29; MRDmg = 11; LRDmg = 0
BattleForce2: MP: 4J, Armor/Structure: 4/4
Damage PB/M/L: 6/3/-, Overheat: 0
Class: MH; Point Value: 15
Specials: ecm
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Reality is where the Pizza-man comes from!'Gucken, petzen, verpissen!' (Look at it, squeal it, get the hell away from it!) – Motto of the recon troops'Artillery doesn´t know friend or foe! They only know worthwhile targets!‘ – Kuritan Infantrist
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SaberDance
Federated Suns
Colonel
Joined: 07-May-2004 00:00
Posts: 837
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| Posted: 14-Apr-2007 13:14 Post subject: |
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The AC2 does too little damage to be effective by itself. Anyone who breaks formation over a Plink Gun deserves what he gets.
I say this as a range-fighter (Whitworth pilot). The AC2 is a waste of space.
The only concession I'll give to the AC2 is that it could be a good weapon if mounted in clusters, a little like an Ontos tank. Four AC2s (or maybe 5 or 10) could really ruin someone's day at range.
But a single AC2? Too much ammo, not enough damage, and it had better be a Brave Sir Robin if you intend to keep the distance you need to make it worthwhile.
Pair that with how many battlefields have you ever fought on where you could get 30-50 (range, plus manuever area) hexes without obstructions, and you have a virtually worthless weapon.
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AWAD
Draconis Combine
Chu-sa
Joined: 06-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 766
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| Posted: 15-Apr-2007 00:31 Post subject: |
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| WhizzbangThePowerSquig wrote: | | I've never been a big fan of fitting a mech who's main purpose is to smash stuff with long-range weapons. Sure, it can hit things on the way in, but as soon as you get close enough to use the axe, the LRMs are basically useless. Use the other axeman, the one with the AC20 on it's shoulder. At least, that's what I'd do... |
I have never accepted this argument. Saying that LRM's are useless since I am a close range brawler? The mech and the pilot many times do not get the choice of where they fight. And even in a city more than once I have seen that long perfect line for a shot down the road.
This is why you do not need to run a cool Mech. The LRM is for approaching only. But even with that said I have seen times when people see you go in hand to gland and forget you have serious ranged firepower. Much to their regret when I need base 6 to hit them with some serious firepower.
What I am saying is gives you flexability. To often I have seen Mechs like the Hatchetman and Hunchback get mostly neutralized since they have no weapons with range.
AWAD- Just did a desert series of battles and even the LL was not good enough for such open terrain
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Sir Henry
Team Bansai
Senior Tech Specialist
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4899
Location: United States
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| Posted: 19-Apr-2007 13:32 Post subject: |
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SaberDance, It's called a Strategic retreat.... 
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Sir Henry
A Dragon in the disguise of a bunny, is still a Dragon.
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Alexander
Heavy Horse Merc Brigade
Commanding Officer
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 828
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 19-Apr-2007 23:12 Post subject: |
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My new group that I play with, our unit had a Lnace (we called it a troop) of Pikes for long range fire support. We used them to great effect in a defensive position against a heavy Kurita Lance of 'Mechs. It was our 'Mech troop (Dervish, 2 Whitworths, and a Valkyrie w/ Artemis) and the Pikes, against a Dragon, Ostscout, Treb, and Jenner, plus two Sparrowhawks.
The Sparrowhawks hit our 'Mechs quick into the battle with Inferno bombs, but one of the Pikes scored a good hit, scaring them off. Then the 'Mechs moved in. The Pikes sat close together at the base of a hill and shot at anything and everything. 12 AC-2s can do a goodly amount of damage in a relatively short amount of time if the vehicle doesn't move. Those Pike's sat in one spot for the whole battle peppering the Kuritas with AC-2s while the 'Mechs traded fire. The Pike's managed to pretty much take down the Treb and Ostscout on their own, and assisted on the Dragon kill.
Of course, we used the Pikes on the advance during a raid on the Clans, and while moving, they couldn't hit the broadside of a dropship.
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War is God's way of teaching geography.
*******
Commanding Officer, North West Armoured Cavalry
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