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Hurlbut
Royal Black Watch Regiment
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 Posted: 17-Oct-2002 14:03 Post subject: RE: Worrying about Those Fighters? |
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Look the Overlord A3's threshold in Capital(Standard)
5.2(52)
4.9(49)/4.9(49)
4.5(45)
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[ This Message was edited by: Hurlbut on 2002-10-17 17:13 ]
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CO_17thRecon
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| Posted: 17-Oct-2002 16:33 Post subject: RE: Worrying about Those Fighters? |
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Maybe you guys should calm down and agree to disagree. I get the feeling that at least one of you is getting hot under the collar.
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Hurlbut
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| Posted: 17-Oct-2002 17:02 Post subject: RE: Worrying about Those Fighters? |
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*calmly* He made up his opinion about my Design based on assumptions, some of which I am citing are wrongfully justified.
[ This Message was edited by: Hurlbut on 2002-10-17 17:12 ]
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Hurlbut
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| Posted: 17-Oct-2002 17:10 Post subject: RE: Worrying about Those Fighters? |
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Karagin, you stated real early in the thread that it does not have anything to fight back at naval ships, well were you saying that those 4 quad NL55 bays are not even good token capital weapons?
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Major Dan
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| Posted: 18-Oct-2002 12:19 Post subject: RE: Worrying about Those Fighters? |
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Quote:
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On 2002-10-17 13:59, Hurlbut wrote:
Karagin, tell me which one that frigrate or cruiser want to fire on, the WarShip that has it in the sight or the FS monitor whose weapons does not reach well far to be even a threat and is not moving to attack the Frigrate/Cruiser? By firing on it, you allow one of the opposing WarShips a chance to get in shots at that firer.
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Considering that having an advantage in fighters makes me happy, I'd gladly take one round of fire to have a firgate or destroyer kill this thing. It's deadly, but its also munchie. What book are the monitor rules in?
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Hurlbut
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| Posted: 18-Oct-2002 15:29 Post subject: RE: Worrying about Those Fighters? |
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Munchie in what way since it is vulnerable to the WarShips?
You can find the rules in HM Aero. They follow WarShip construction rules minus all stuffs for KF drive and Sail and such related stuffs. For monitor at 400k or under, you allocate 1 docking collar for every 100k. JumpShip can only carry a monitor up to 200K while a WarShip can only carry a monitor up to 400K. It is not a rule but monitors are supposed to be manueverable and tough so you try to give them comparable high thrust and high SI. I can forward Tek's article to you which is what the TPTB are using for the Monitor stuff with a few revisions by themselves.
[ This Message was edited by: Hurlbut on 2002-10-18 15:33 ]
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Major Dan
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| Posted: 18-Oct-2002 15:45 Post subject: RE: Worrying about Those Fighters? |
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On 2002-10-18 15:29, Hurlbut wrote:
Munchie in what way since it is vulnerable to the WarShips?
You can find the rules in HM Aero. They follow WarShip construction rules minus all stuffs for KF drive and Sail and such related stuffs. For monitor at 400k or under, you allocate 1 docking collar for every 100k. JumpShip can only carry a monitor up to 200K while a WarShip can only carry a monitor up to 400K. It is not a rule but monitors are supposed to be manueverable and tough so you try to give them comparable high thrust and high SI. I can forward Tek's article to you which is what the TPTB are using for the Monitor stuff with a few revisions by themselves.
[ This Message was edited by: Hurlbut on 2002-10-18 15:33 ]
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Munchie in the way that you are getting Naval class weapons on something that is cheaper and more efficient than a Dropship. Combat dropships are made a thing of the past if this becomes mainstream.. I mean cmon.. An admiral sees one incoming jump signature and gets ready to fight 1 warship. Instead a warhsip comes in and drops off 2 200k monitors, both with Naval class weapons and armor. Thats 3 warships for the price of 1+ some.. So what if they dont have a KF drive. Monitors or meant to be slow and ungainly, with massive weapons only to be used in defense. Thats not what I'm getting from yall.
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Hurlbut
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| Posted: 18-Oct-2002 17:54 Post subject: RE: Worrying about Those Fighters? |
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No no, you got it wrong on one thing, monitors are meant to be swift and tough (not necessarily very high firepower). You can sleep safe at night since it is level 3, although that will change in the future. On another note, the only reason a 100K monitor is cheaper than the 100K DropShip (the TOP limit of tonnage for DropShips) is because it used the WarShip cost multiplier which is X2 and DropShip is a bit more expensive due to the fact that, with a low thrust limit, it can operate in the atmosphere which the monitor cannot do.
I can tell you this; I would like to see the Monitors made Level 2 with some revisions to make them better balanced. TPTB could be more open mind toward them and work effortlier toward making them balanced, remember the Monitor rules were made by one person in a semi official magazine article.
{Edited} You do know that when I was talking about the limit of monitor tonnage carried by JumpShip or WarShip, I was refering to the individuals, not the total of tonnage carried by them? Like a WarShip with 8 Docking collar can carry 2 400k Monitors?
[ This Message was edited by: Hurlbut on 2002-10-18 18:04 ]
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Major Dan
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| Posted: 18-Oct-2002 18:04 Post subject: RE: Worrying about Those Fighters? |
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| Monitors throughout history and in all (that I know of) other space battle games have been slow ships with enough guns to blow up a planet (exageration, but still). I just dont see this new class of ship that is more efficient than anything weve got now being non-munchie. Who cares if it cant go in atmosphere? Swing em in with a decent sized warship, clear out the space baddies, then bring in the 100k ton Dropships with minimal guns, and use the Naval weapons to support/decimate the LZ.
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Hurlbut
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| Posted: 18-Oct-2002 18:09 Post subject: RE: Worrying about Those Fighters? |
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You have to give up more tonnage for high speed and SI. Look at this way, you want heavy firepower, you have to lower Speed, SI and Armor (affect one another in specific order as above) If you want higher speed, you have to lose some Firepower first, then armor then SI. What I hope when TPTB make revisions, they would make a new construction rule that state the Monitor must have a high SI and high speed. Look Tekteam's Monitor article will explain it more in details, do you want it forward to you or not?
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| Posted: 18-Oct-2002 18:22 Post subject: RE: Worrying about Those Fighters? |
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Please do.
rob.marti (at) veriozn.net
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Hurlbut
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Karagin
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| Posted: 18-Oct-2002 20:32 Post subject: RE: Worrying about Those Fighters? |
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Actually you don't since the battle in space is more fluid then one on the ground...you move or take hits...nothing to hide behind in space.
The Frigates and such can hit the monitor at range BEFORE it can return effetive fire. And they don't have to give all of their weapons bays up to engaging that ship...they can fire some of the weapons at other targets...
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Karagin
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| Posted: 18-Oct-2002 20:35 Post subject: RE: Worrying about Those Fighters? |
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4NL55s...okay so? Meanwhile it is taking hits from multiple bays on other ships with 4NL55s or other naval weaponary...
SO it has some popguns to tickle an attacking warships...it's low threshold will have it looking like swiss cheese after the first round of fire from a warship that brings it full weight of guns to bear on it...
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Karagin
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| Posted: 18-Oct-2002 20:38 Post subject: RE: Worrying about Those Fighters? |
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NO sorry I didn't make anything based on assumpations. I looked at what you gave us and based my ideas off of that.
You built a ship that as ONE role engage enemy fighters.
I countered that a dropship can do the same job and be cheaper. As can fighters that most warships and dropships carry. I also pointed out that a corevette or frigate could do the same job your monitor is doing and still be able to preform other roles as needed.
All of this is based off of your stats of the LEVEL 3 monitor you posted.
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