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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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 Posted: 18-Oct-2002 20:39 Post subject: RE: Worrying about Those Fighters? |
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Monitors are LEVEL 3 ships...they are from MECHFORCE NA...
They are not in any offical rule book about AT2. They are included in HMAero because Rick felt they have a place in the game. And they do have a place.
SO since they are level 3 they are opintional as far as use goes.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Major Dan
Free Worlds League
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| Posted: 18-Oct-2002 22:55 Post subject: RE: Worrying about Those Fighters? |
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On 2002-10-18 18:34, Hurlbut wrote:
Sent (after a little spelling revision on your address) 
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Oops. 
So.. since I dont have HM: Aero, how does your ship come in lighter, with twice the armor, twice the HS and massively more firepower than the one you emailed me? Maybe Im missing something because of the formatting of the email...
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Hurlbut
Royal Black Watch Regiment
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| Posted: 19-Oct-2002 14:07 Post subject: RE: Worrying about Those Fighters? |
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Actually I did not sent you any design other than Tekteam's two monitor designs that were integrated with the article.
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Hurlbut
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| Posted: 19-Oct-2002 14:09 Post subject: RE: Worrying about Those Fighters? |
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Karagin you do know I said 4 quad NL55 batteries as in 16 of them in 4 quad guns turrets? I am content with that as token capital armament since they can do a total of 44 capital damage right or left side.
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Exsanguine, Aegis Class Heavy Cruiser
The Naval Reserve of Clan Blood Spirit
[ This Message was edited by: Hurlbut on 2002-10-19 14:14 ]
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Hurlbut
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Major Dan
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| Posted: 19-Oct-2002 17:21 Post subject: RE: Worrying about Those Fighters? |
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I've got a question..
On your design is a docking collar. Is this the one meant to attach to a Jumpship so that the monitor can BE carried? Or is it to carry another dropship? If it is to be carried, doesnt it need another one? If it is to carry, then I deem this set of rules to be far too munchkin to ever be level 2. There is no way game balance would let a warship (minus jump drive) to be carried in via another warship, and then drop off its own assault dropships. Also, I have a HUGE problem with the cost multiplier. x2 is nowhere near enough. Your monitor costs just under 500 million. Thats two companies of Thunder Hawks. The reason its only x2 for a normal warship is because the KF drive adds enough to the cost to balance it out. For monitors it needs to be adjusted up to appx. the same as Dropships (at least) before I will consider allowing them to be lvl 2 in my group of players.
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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| Posted: 19-Oct-2002 17:40 Post subject: RE: Worrying about Those Fighters? |
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So what? The ship doesn't have the armor or the thershold ratings to take any kind of hits from warships or massed fire from fighters and dropships.
Sorry but the those Naval Lasers you have are a waste of space that could have been better spent on more SI to gain more armor.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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| Posted: 19-Oct-2002 17:41 Post subject: RE: Worrying about Those Fighters? |
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Rick had them at level 3 from the start...JUST as they were given to him...he left them at level 3 and the TPTB have stated they will STAY THERE.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
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| Posted: 20-Oct-2002 02:52 Post subject: RE: Worrying about Those Fighters? |
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A ship designed to engage fighters will be limited in other areas, OK. So will any other specialized ship. What`s the problem? You`ll just have to specify some basic deployment rules and tactics that captains of this support ship use. Note: support ship usually means there will be something else to support, something that`s meant to do the really heavy fighting.
Still, if the opposing Admiral likes using fighters in the first attack wave he`s likely to pour some capital firepower into your monitors from long range.
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[ This Message was edited by: Nightmare on 2002-10-21 02:46 ]
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Hurlbut
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| Posted: 20-Oct-2002 12:51 Post subject: RE: Worrying about Those Fighters? |
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Quote:
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Sorry but the those Naval Lasers you have are a waste of space that could have been better spent on more SI to gain more armor.
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Karagin you [blank], the SI IS MAXED OUT, and so the ARMOR IS MAXED.
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Hurlbut
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| Posted: 20-Oct-2002 12:57 Post subject: RE: Worrying about Those Fighters? |
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Dan, because the fact that Monitors do not have KF-Drive, they cannot carry dropships. DropShips has to use a Jumpship, be conventional or combat type. Monitors at 400,000 tonnages and under carry docking collar for every 100,000 tonnage or fraction thereof. Dan, you should know why they carry docking collars after all you do have the article already.
Quote:
| In order to be transported by jump-capable vessels, monitors must be equiped with docking collars similar to those used by Jumpships and WarShips so that the transporting vessel's K-F field can be extended over the entire volume of the carried monitor. |
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Taken from the article.
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Exsanguine, Aegis Class Heavy Cruiser
The Naval Reserve of Clan Blood Spirit
[ This Message was edited by: Hurlbut on 2002-10-20 12:59 ]
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Hurlbut
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| Posted: 20-Oct-2002 13:01 Post subject: RE: Worrying about Those Fighters? |
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What is your problem Karagin, are you not happy that WarShips of frigate-sized or bigger (AT2 term) can annilihate my Monitor design in one salvo even though it was not meant for freaking WarShip to WarShip combat?
I do not understand your vendetta against Monitors, I mean afterall would you rather to risk losing an entire task group of WarShips since they are becoming more and more rare, making monitors more of a valuable compoment of a task group centered around WarShips as flagships and minimizing losses?
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Star Captain Alexander, XO
Exsanguine, Aegis Class Heavy Cruiser
The Naval Reserve of Clan Blood Spirit
[ This Message was edited by: Hurlbut on 2002-10-20 13:01 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Hurlbut on 2002-10-20 13:11 ]
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Karagin
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| Posted: 20-Oct-2002 15:08 Post subject: RE: Worrying about Those Fighters? |
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Why are you getting so worked up?
You built a level 3 vessel...thus it's optinonal for use.
It's building a mech using all level 3 tech to deal with a level 1 or two mech...what's the point?
As I said the same TYPE of vessel, i.e. one that is used to engage enemy aerospace fighters prior or during the fleet engagment cand be done by a dropship or a corvette...as well as the fighters carried by the warship themselves.
Specializing a ship to one mission and only that mission is not always a good thing.
Yes your vessel has NLs on it...4 bays NLs is all great and fine, but don't you think that given role of the vessel you built and have been totting...that having that many NLs doesn't really gain you any thing?
You seem to think that this vessel will save any fleet that has it with them, and I simply pointing out that is not the case. The vessel's armor while maked out CAN NOT TAKE more then two hits from massed fire and given HOW the game works that is what is going end up hitting the vessel.
So while you have a nice and interesting idea for a LEVEL 3 vessel to deal with what is basicaly a level 2 problem, to me just doesn't show many anything.
How about this...build a LEVEL 2 vessel to the same job as your LEVEL 3 monitor and let's see how the compare...
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Major Dan
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| Posted: 21-Oct-2002 16:43 Post subject: RE: Worrying about Those Fighters? |
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Quote:
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On 2002-10-20 12:57, Hurlbut wrote:
Dan, because the fact that Monitors do not have KF-Drive, they cannot carry dropships. DropShips has to use a Jumpship, be conventional or combat type. Monitors at 400,000 tonnages and under carry docking collar for every 100,000 tonnage or fraction thereof. Dan, you should know why they carry docking collars after all you do have the article already.
Quote:
| In order to be transported by jump-capable vessels, monitors must be equiped with docking collars similar to those used by Jumpships and WarShips so that the transporting vessel's K-F field can be extended over the entire volume of the carried monitor. |
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Taken from the article. |
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Right.
But the article said 1 collar for every 60K tons. You weigh 100K tons, and have *1* collar. Also, you didnt answer my question (and neither does the article). Can a Monitor that is docked to a Jump/Warship, have Dropships docked to it?
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Hurlbut
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| Posted: 21-Oct-2002 16:46 Post subject: RE: Worrying about Those Fighters? |
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The Power That Be stated that the tonnage per docking collar which was originally UNIVERSALLY 60k be changed to 100K and they said that should applied to the monitors as well.
The answer is a resounding NO, you can see that docking collar statement for the monitors is a rule, you cannot add any more or any less than one per 100K and only then it is used for docking with a jumpship.
Dan, you can ask Tekteam at this forum; Classic Battletech Site AT2 Forum He know all the changes that have been implemented on the monitors since his article, he will back up most of the facts I been stating on this thread.
[ This Message was edited by: Hurlbut on 2002-10-21 16:51 ]
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