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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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 Posted: 12-Feb-2002 23:47 Post subject: Question... |
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Okay let me explain what happen and then I would like to know how you folks would handle the situation or not have handled it.
During a game of Battletech, the following happen, a Victor VTR-9K, was hit by a Clan ER PPC, 15 damage to the right torso, the receiving player, marks the damage on the Right torso which has a max of 23 to the front, (note we were using the HMPro print outs). That torso had taken 7 points of damage from a missile hit earlier in the game and with the 15 points from the ER PPC hit should have been down to two points of armor left...right?
Two turns later the right torso of the Victor is hit for 7 points of damage from a Clan Medium Pulse laser off of an Adder. Now logic says that having one two points on the outside armor would mean five points transfers into the internal sturcture. Well that is not what the person piloting the Victor claims, he flat out told the Clan player "No chance of Crit, and no armor breach". To which the Clan player has the look of utter shock on his face. Once he recovered, he asked to see the sheet of the Victor and we find out that the other player was doubling up the damage so as NOT to take an internal hit. The two of the players on his the Victor pilot's team, tried to say it was an honest mistake, to which everyone else was like no way...
Now this lead to a lot arguing over his cheating or not cheating and the person running the Victor left after which we never did finish the game, mostly because everyone was so upset over the whole thing.
Now how would you folks have handled this? Would there have been the same arguement that lead to the end of the game or would you have done something else?
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Mordel
Mordel.Net
Administrator
Joined: 03-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 12-Feb-2002 23:56 Post subject: Question... |
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Well, if it was my game that was being run, I would keep a VERY close eye on him the rest of the game. I probably would have let the "oops, it was a mistake" excuse slide by once, even if I thought he was full of crap!
However, I would definitely keep a close eye on him for that game and any other event I saw him in. We have a way of dealing with people like that at TotalCon. Every game they are in when we play them, we make it a point to kill them quickly. Doesn't matter the objective. Doesn't matter the to-hit rolls needed. It is OUR focus to kill him and get him out of the game as soon as possible. I lose track of the number of players that we never saw play BattleTech again because of it.
I think based on what you said, there was more arguing that there needed to be here. And whoever was running the scenario should've stepped in sooner.
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Mordel Blacknight - Site Administrator
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 13-Feb-2002 00:13 Post subject: Question... |
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While the arguing was going on the GM was looking the sheet over and double checking things, he seemed to be correct the "mistake" and was for getting back to the game, but unforuntley folks got to heated over it and when the guy running the Victor left, we just didn't want to finish.
I wish we had, because both sides were actually doing well and neither had an advantage.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 8047
Location: United States
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| Posted: 13-Feb-2002 06:14 Post subject: Question... |
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IM(ns)HO he's cheating.
There's no other way to say it.
And Mordel's correct--we have great ways to deal with cheaters 
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Rarich
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 991
Location: United States
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| Posted: 13-Feb-2002 07:12 Post subject: Question... |
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If he wasn't mounting special armor he was cheating. I assume you were playing L2 rules, so no special armor was allowed.
Is this the 1st time he played with your group? He may have been a starting player and only learned Huose Rules for his group. I have run into stuff like that, I changed location a lot and there were "house rules" that are assumed and not taught as such to new players joining the group.
Vampire has his armor rules, There is the Renegade Battletech rules too. If the group found the new weapons too lethal and started effectively doubling the armor without mentioning the change to a new guy......
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Duct tape is like the force. It has a light side & a dark side, and strings also lie under it all.
Life is a sexually transmitted terminal disease.
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Sir Henry
Team Bansai
Senior Tech Specialist
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4899
Location: United States
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| Posted: 13-Feb-2002 08:07 Post subject: Question... |
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Like Mordel Said, Let the first 'mistake' slide and watch him for any other 'mistakes'.
Some Players just never learn. We had one player who could shoot 2 PPC's, 2 AC5 every turn in a Rifleman. We didn't catch it til later. He saw on the sheet 1 listing for each type of waepon and was only take the heat for one of the PPC's and AC5s. When we added up his heat it was over 70. We took care of it, we ejected him and his mech blew up, due to ammo explosion. He also spent, from that time on, a lot of time underwater. We called him Capt'n Nemo. So he went from one extreme to the other. We dealt with it, anytime he was playing we outfitted one mech with Torpedoes...
The other players should have dealt with it. Blast him to hell, or let it go. Don't just pick up your stuff and leave. No matter how upset you are, deal with it in game. Have the GM say he has a computer failure, and pieces of the mech just fall off or stop working.
Don't give him any excuse for this.
Let them know that you don't play that. If he's a new player, this will make sure he never does it again. If he's an experienced player, He should have known better.
I Like the way they deal with these types, kill them off and get back to the game.
-Sir HEnry
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Sir Henry
A Dragon in the disguise of a bunny, is still a Dragon.
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 13-Feb-2002 13:39 Post subject: Question... |
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Quote:
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On 2002-02-13 07:12, Rarich wrote:
If he wasn't mounting special armor he was cheating. I assume you were playing L2 rules, so no special armor was allowed. |
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No special armor, just normal battletech level 2.
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Is this the 1st time he played with your group? He may have been a starting player and only learned Huose Rules for his group. I have run into stuff like that, I changed location a lot and there were "house rules" that are assumed and not taught as such to new players joining the group.
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All of the folks playing had from 4 years to 15 years experience of playing Battletech, no one was a new player, as far as I know the guy has close to 4 years of playing the game and up until he doubled up the damage, he was not showing any signs of not understand how the rules worked.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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ICER
Clan Hell's Horses
Galaxy Commander
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1663
Location: United States
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| Posted: 13-Feb-2002 18:35 Post subject: Question... |
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Mordel is correct. The GM should have interveined. And put a stop the arguement. Then Correct the mistake on the players sheet. And roll for crits. If they have a issue with this. Then they do not belong in the game.
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Horhiro
Draconis Combine
Samurai
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1625
Location: United States
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| Posted: 13-Feb-2002 18:47 Post subject: Question... |
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It's hard to tell when people are making an honest mistake or when they're cheating. If your not sure just correct the mistakes and try to get on with the game as best you can. Perhaps award automatic Initiative to the slighted team for 3 rounds or something.
If they are definately cheating, they are cheating all others out of having their fun, and should not be allowed to play. Let someone else run their units and expell them from the game.
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"I have lived my life trying to be a virtuous man. The Dragon admires tenacity, and the code of the samurai upholds it as well." -Minobu Tetsuhara
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 13-Feb-2002 18:50 Post subject: Question... |
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On 2002-02-13 18:35, ICER wrote:
Mordel is correct. The GM should have interveined. And put a stop the arguement. Then Correct the mistake on the players sheet. And roll for crits. If they have a issue with this. Then they do not belong in the game.
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I agree with you both on this, and Dan (the GM) was looking things over while the rest of us "talked" about it. Seeing how it was only one person who was cheating most of the players wanted him to leave and after a some not so cool things got tossed back and forth he did leave. But we were not in the mode to play the game any longer that night.
Talking with Dan later he was going on about next time I will tell the person to leave and take over the mech. So I guess he learned something from this.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Mordel
Mordel.Net
Administrator
Joined: 03-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 13-Feb-2002 18:57 Post subject: Question... |
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As long as something is learned and nobody got hurt, then it was a worthwhile experience. Or at least that's the way I look at things.
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Mordel Blacknight - Site Administrator
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 8047
Location: United States
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| Posted: 13-Feb-2002 19:12 Post subject: Question... |
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If it were an honest mistake then the "offending" player shouldn't have been putting up a fight.
I once had a person I was playing against in a lance on lance battle claim the reason he lost so badly was my dice were loaded. So I offered to play him again, with each of us swaping dice.
The idiot made the same exact tactical mistakes and I killed him even faster the second time around. He stormed off still saying I cheated.
I still have his dice.
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Sir Henry
Team Bansai
Senior Tech Specialist
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4899
Location: United States
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| Posted: 13-Feb-2002 21:08 Post subject: Question... |
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Use them as a reminder.
Sir Henry
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Sir Henry
A Dragon in the disguise of a bunny, is still a Dragon.
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AWAD
Draconis Combine
Chu-sa
Joined: 06-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 766
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| Posted: 13-Feb-2002 22:53 Post subject: Question... |
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Karagin,
Was this up in your neck of the woods? or over in Grand Rapids area? We have played some tournements together in the Motor City and I know a lot of that crowd. Some players are sloppy and careless, that can be a pain and you have to ride them. None that I can call intentional cheaters, but some skaters is more like it. Be careful Karagin as your style of marking damage and the likes has irked some people. Becareful of casting a big old stone.
YOu know My Little Box of Yellow Death? Yellow dice with black markings? I have those for two important reasons, I love them and no else has them (read as one reason) and you can see the roll form a mile away. I had some cheat problems. I pulled everyones dice and made them use mine. GMs need to be in control, at the same time players need to vigilant and forthright but not forceful, let the GM do it. If no GM then gang up and beaty the crap out of him. But always make sure of the evidence before lynching him.
AWAD- Roll....... MY DICE
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 13-Feb-2002 23:09 Post subject: Question... |
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On 2002-02-13 22:53, AWAD wrote:
Karagin,
Was this up in your neck of the woods? or over in Grand Rapids area? We have played some tournements together in the Motor City and I know a lot of that crowd. Some players are sloppy and careless, that can be a pain and you have to ride them. None that I can call intentional cheaters, but some skaters is more like it. Be careful Karagin as your style of marking damage and the likes has irked some people. Becareful of casting a big old stone. |
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As I said on Sarna, I was sitting there going What the...what is the point of this? Nothing in that mech's torso to warrant it...cause this is the first time in 9 years I have seen someone cheat and the last time well it wasn't pretty...finding out later that I was beat by 120 ton Spider that was still showing only it's 30 ton weight...[crazy] I was one of the ones who wished we had kept playing...my style of marking the damage may not be to alls liking but I am not going to shave a point or 10 of damage off or double mark the boxes...
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YOu know My Little Box of Yellow Death? Yellow dice with black markings? I have those for two important reasons, I love them and no else has them (read as one reason) and you can see the roll form a mile away. I had some cheat problems. I pulled everyones dice and made them use mine. GMs need to be in control, at the same time players need to vigilant and forthright but not forceful, let the GM do it. If no GM then gang up and beaty the crap out of him. But always make sure of the evidence before lynching him.
AWAD- Roll....... MY DICE
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I agree GMs should be in control and Dan is learning as he goes. Right now I am trying to get folks interested in Big Rapids and trying to find someone to play the game with on my side of the state...seems everyone is on your side or down around Kzoo and Battle Creek...
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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