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Cadet
ComStar
Lieutenant, SG
Joined: 17-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 495
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 Posted: 29-Apr-2002 01:40 Post subject: Artwork |
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I look at the artwork in TRO3067 and it sucks. Clearely Plog and Vorwhinkle are ont his anime trip and have moved away from walking tanks to this Gundam thing and it pisses me off. Is it really too much to ask that we get some decent talent to draw the mechs?
I just loot through it and see the same mech over and over. And for chrying out loud I am sick to death of the oversized gun thing.
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Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1860
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| Posted: 29-Apr-2002 13:09 Post subject: Artwork |
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Quote:
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On 2002-04-29 01:40, Cadet wrote:
I look at the artwork in TRO3067 and it sucks. Clearely Plog and Vorwhinkle are ont his anime trip and have moved away from walking tanks to this Gundam thing and it pisses me off. Is it really too much to ask that we get some decent talent to draw the mechs?
I just loot through it and see the same mech over and over. And for chrying out loud I am sick to death of the oversized gun thing.
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I love how people keep saying that they are making the 'Mechs look more and more like anime...especially when many of these are those who want the Unseen back...it's ironic because the Unseen WERE ANIME MECHA... 
Ruger
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 29-Apr-2002 13:20 Post subject: Artwork |
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True they were, BUT they didn't have that Rounded feel that a lot of the anime mechs out there have.
They actually LOOKED like walking tanks, not something like a set of cylinders on legs...
Ruger, you know alot about anime go look at the mechs in TR3067 and some of the anime mechs out there, the Zoids are fine for walking cats and animals but even they have limits on what's believable. Patlabor Bots, cool but I don't think things will look that in the future, the list goes on...
The rounded mech in TR3055, it's Clan Second Line unit, name is escaping me right now, but that one to me has anime written all over it.
The idea is the mechs are not looking like war machines, but more like video game robots. The UNSEEN had the feel of gritty aged war machines that could kick ass and take names and kick some more ass while taking the names. A lot of these mechs from the new TR and TR3060, look like something I would expect to find on Zoids or an old Gobots cartoon, or from Power Rangers and it's many spin offs.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1860
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| Posted: 29-Apr-2002 15:04 Post subject: Artwork |
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On 2002-04-29 13:20, Karagin wrote:
mechs out there, the Zoids are fine for walking cats and animals but even they have
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Actually, I think the Zoids anime has some great designs in it...especially for war machines...the DiBison, the Zabre Fang, the Lightning Saix, etc....
Perhaps not on the same vein as say the Zaku from Gundam, the Destroids from Macross, the Armored Troopers from Armored Troopers VOTOMS or the Tactical Armors of Gasaraki, but they still say military to me...
Ruger
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5606
Location: United States
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| Posted: 29-Apr-2002 15:13 Post subject: Artwork |
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i disagree. if they were going towards mecha, all of the bmechs would look really kick ass.
i just think that the general feel, has exited from litteral walking tanks, to a more human or non-flat surfaced unit.
the peragrine [tr3055] was drawn as round, BECAUSE in the fluff [idea for mech] they stated that it was a possible, under water mech. an its proven that round surfaces resist water pressures better then flat.
using a similar argument. the new LOOK could be an unstated advancement in inner sphere mech defensive measures. because an angeled, or rounded surface has a sufficently better deflection value, then a panzer like 70+ degree surface. thou once stated as, to difficult to manufacture, maybe theve passed this point.
just something to ponder.
vampire, you've done research on armor. would the present look of mechs, help to theorticly reduce or prevent damage?
whats your take?
anyway, i personel PREFER an anime mecha look, over several/most designs. but hey thats me.
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Rarich
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 991
Location: United States
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| Posted: 02-May-2002 06:20 Post subject: Artwork |
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I prefer a machine/ Tank look, Curved surfaces are harder to produce in quantity, especially in the special armor that mechs use. A blockier look would allow for parts commonality and easier supply. instead of having to stock and track 13 shapes in quantities of 2 or 3, you could stock 5 shapes in quantities of 10 and 20. I guess that would kind of explain the supply issues that keep coming up in fluff.
The t-80's built by russia with that beautifully rounded turret have a low production rate for a reason. it also probably makes it impossible to use composite armors on the turret Too. Give me an Abrams/ AMX/ Leopard like look. some curves are necessary, but should not be a rule.
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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| Posted: 02-May-2002 13:54 Post subject: Artwork |
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Cadet wrote:
Clearely Plog and Vorwhinkle are ont his anime trip and have moved away from walking tanks to this Gundam thing and it pisses me off. Is it really too much to ask that we get some decent talent to draw the mechs?
I think Plog's work is pretty good. I don't think a lack of hard edges takes away from the military quality of the work. A lot of modern weaponry has rounded surfaces, just look at any jet fighter. Rounded surfaces look fine as long as they are not overdone.
And for crying out loud I am sick to death of the oversized gun thing.
Definitely. I think its lame in Warhammer, and its equally lame when they try to put it into Battletech.
Ruger wrote:
I love how people keep saying that they are making the 'Mechs look more and more like anime...especially when many of these are those who want the Unseen back...it's ironic because the Unseen WERE ANIME MECHA...
Perhaps the qualifier "contemporary" should be put in the "they look like anime" statement. The general trend of anime has changed in favor of the unrealistic or absurd. This is not something I particularly want to see in Battletech.
IMO, military hardware should be designed to show a certain amount of professionalism and funtionality. It's one thing to write "tank killer" on the side of a mech, but to dress them up with excess fins, orbs, valves, plates, spikes, or anything else really takes away from the look. Furthermore, all the parts of the machines should be in correct proportion. Oversized bores and undersized feet make mechs look ridiculous.
Take the White Flame out of 3067 as an example. There are hoses sticking out of the legs, the rear feet are too small, the large pulse laser bore is the same size as the cockpit, and the armor plating covering the joints has ridges in it that make them look like venetian blinds. And in this case the rounded surfaces on the legs are way overdone. That is bad art, IMO.
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Gangrene
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Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1860
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| Posted: 03-May-2002 01:18 Post subject: Artwork |
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On 2002-05-02 13:54, Gangrene wrote:
Cadet wrote:
Ruger wrote:
I love how people keep saying that they are making the 'Mechs look more and more like anime...especially when many of these are those who want the Unseen back...it's ironic because the Unseen WERE ANIME MECHA...
Perhaps the qualifier "contemporary" should be put in the "they look like anime" statement. The general trend of anime has changed in favor of the unrealistic or absurd. This is not something I particularly want to see in Battletech.
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Watch Gasaraki and tell me that...only certain genres have what you are describing here...that genre is called the "giant robot" genre...the hard military genre contains works like Gundam (Universal Century, not Wing or G...and note, this came in at the end of the 70s era of Giant Robots, and was influenced by them, but helped to promote the hard military stuff), Gasaraki, Armored Troopers VOTOMS, some of the stuff from Macross and Bubblegum Crisis (not the story, but the mecha, aside from perhaps the Veritechs of Macross, are very well done and well represent military "'Mechs" and Battle Armor), MOSPEADA, Southern Cross, etc...while I admit that much of this came out in the 80s, a good portion are products of the 90s...and there are most likely several series I'm missing, as I readily admit I don't know them all...I've only seen some of what is commercially available in America and a few others in straight Japanese or Fansubbed...
Although you might be correct...I have not kept up with all the new stuff coming out in Japan...perhaps the Giant Robot stuff is coming back into vogue...
Ruger
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Talen
Capellan Confederation
Sang-shao
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1269
Location: United States
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| Posted: 03-May-2002 01:50 Post subject: Artwork |
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Just as a quick side note...what do you people think of the designs in Heavy Gear? I personally think these designs are very military in orign. They all look very "down to earth" with a minimal flaire to them. They also mix the blockiness and curves nicely, creating a sense of usefulness and style. Interestnly, though, all the Gears were designed by anime artists.
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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| Posted: 03-May-2002 03:31 Post subject: Artwork |
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As you can probably guess I am not much of an anime fan, and as such am not familiar of with most of the series or sub-genres of which you write. But it doesn't take much knowledge in those areas to be able to stroll down an isle at a store selling anime, look at the covers, and say "that looks bad." And while I cannot say that all anime is like that, I can say that a majority of what I come across has features that I do not like. Mecha with feathery wings, ungainly portrusions, decorations, and disproportionate parts are abundant.
I would rather not see such things come into Battletech.
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Gangrene
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Vampire
Free Worlds League
Lieutenant Colonel
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 912
Location: Spain
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| Posted: 03-May-2002 07:43 Post subject: Artwork |
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Quote:
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On 2002-05-03 01:50, Talen wrote:
Just as a quick side note...what do you people think of the designs in Heavy Gear? I personally think these designs are very military in orign.
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They are well made, and make sense, the only fault is the rifle like weapons.
However, their sloping surfaces would be difficult to apply to 'Mechs. Different scales, a Gear is, IIRC, about 4 meters tall, if you tried to apply armor in such a wedge shape to a Battlemech torso, it would be very unbalanced, due to the higher center of mass. Most 'Mechs are just top heavy at the front, for some, like the Javelin, it's a real problem. Moreover, Gears have their engines on their backs, acting as a counterweight. In a Battlemech the engine takes a lot of mass and space within the torso and is usually centrally located.
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Chunga
Federated Suns
Private, First Class
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 47
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| Posted: 03-May-2002 11:39 Post subject: Artwork |
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Quote:
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On 2002-04-29 13:20, Karagin wrote:
True they were, BUT they didn't have that Rounded feel that a lot of the anime mechs out there have. |
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Ok. Let's take a look at the old mechs
Wasp - rounded
Stinger - rounded
Crusader - rounded
Locust - rounded
Ost series - rounded
Phoenix Hawk - rounded
Wolverine - rounded parts
Griffin - rounded
You were saying?
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Talen
Capellan Confederation
Sang-shao
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1269
Location: United States
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| Posted: 03-May-2002 14:55 Post subject: Artwork |
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I just took a look at the 3067 TRO. Most of it is CRAP! I mean, 3060 was bad...but this one is terrible. A few stood out as decent designs...but ALL the Sphere 'mechs look like crap. The Clan ones, for the most part, keep their Clan-esq appearences...but its mostly crap.
Of particular note...2 of the warships were totally awesome looking. I particularly liked the Clan Warship that was almost a blantant copy off of the Eclipse from the Star Wars: Dark Empire comics.
Vehicles were decent, and I didnt look at the aero-fighters.
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"Historians exercise great power and some of them know it. They recreate the past, changing it to fit their own interpretations. Thus, they change the future as well." - Leto II
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Rarich
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 991
Location: United States
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| Posted: 03-May-2002 23:30 Post subject: Artwork |
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Quote:
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On 2002-05-03 01:50, Talen wrote:
Just as a quick side note...what do you people think of the designs in Heavy Gear? I personally think these designs are very military in orign. They all look very "down to earth" with a minimal flaire to them. They also mix the blockiness and curves nicely, creating a sense of usefulness and style. Interestnly, though, all the Gears were designed by anime artists.
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They are closer to the original Battletech than what I have seen out there. I actually stopped at MetalGear because I thought it was a new Battletech thing.
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Duct tape is like the force. It has a light side & a dark side, and strings also lie under it all.
Life is a sexually transmitted terminal disease.
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5606
Location: United States
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| Posted: 04-May-2002 19:10 Post subject: Artwork |
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Quote:
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On 2002-05-03 14:55, Talen wrote:
Of particular note...2 of the warships were totally awesome looking. I particularly liked the Clan Warship that was almost a blantant copy off of the Eclipse from the Star Wars: Dark Empire comics.
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ya if the clans can copy a 16 kilometer ship. sure. lol.
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one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
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