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RFalcon
Clan Nova Cat
Star Captain
Joined: 01-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 156
Location: United States
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 Posted: 04-May-2002 02:07 Post subject: What is Munchy? |
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I know what Munchy means as far as the definition, that's not what I'm looking for. What I'd like to know is what people think is munchy. What makes something munchy and why?
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Nova Commander Tarn (Elam)
3rd BattleMech Star
1st Battle Trinary
8th Scorpion Uhlans (The Crimson Legion)
Gamma Galaxy (The Cave Dwellers)
Clan Golaith Scorpion
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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| Posted: 04-May-2002 02:29 Post subject: What is Munchy? |
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My definition of munchy is when a single variable is used in such a way that it repeatedly tips the scales in favor of a certain outcome, and said variable is significantly disproportionate to other aspects of the game.
I know that sounds generic, but its a more technical way of saying something is munchy when it throws the game out of whack. There are two L2 tactics that I find munchy: (1)the TC/Pulse combo and (2) jumping distances of 7+ repeatedly. However, since the two sort of counter-balance each other I can't say that either is real munchy. Personally, though, I would rather see both absent from the game.
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Gangrene
[ This Message was edited by: Gangrene on 2002-05-04 02:29 ]
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Gangrene
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Gunslinger Patch
Royal Black Watch Regiment
Major
Joined: 04-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 1611
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| Posted: 04-May-2002 03:10 Post subject: What is Munchy? |
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Last year I played a couple of games during a vacation week with a guy and his buddy I met through a non-mech friend of mine who is still in college (he started late).
These guys had their own custom Clan with designs for every weight class and we played his customs vs. my customs with I think it was 200 tons per side on two evenings.
Like I said, these guys said they were Clanners all the way. Yet every single mech they fielded had targeting computers, maximum jump jets and nothin but medium and heavy pulse lasers. And they never fought one on one but always targeted the entire lance on a single target until it went down.
I went for a varied lance, a light mech, a medium, a slugger heavy and a hang back Archer. I went for varied weapons with good LRMs since my own custom stuff winds up with LRMs having a -2 just like the pulse laser (1 for mech targeting and 1 for Artemis X). I was rusty and got stomped on bad the first time out, didn't even get one kill. But the next day I was able to remember how to spell t-a-c-t-i-c-s and me and my green non-mech buddy took them out with only one loss in return.
Since the Clans are supposed to not much like jump jets and since their Clan's main tactic was to jump long distances to fire their one and only weapons technology at close range concentrated on one single target, I would have to call that munchy.
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"Those who beat their guns into plows will plow for those with guns..." -Thomas Jefferson
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5606
Location: United States
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| Posted: 04-May-2002 18:27 Post subject: What is Munchy? |
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you've opened a pandorase box.
this question can not be awnsered with any single example. as each persons ideas of munchy are different.
they range from pulse mosters, to enerrgy boats, uber missiles to the ever faithful guass haters. some even see valid tactics used in even lvl1 as munchy, to your ever advide lvl3 haters.
anything that turns a fun game into a bore, to the simple use of over whelming odds.
i guess my opinion when reviewing other games, is when a group of players or player uses LEGAL allowed tactics, that use little or no imagination to beat other players more then 50 percent of the time.
my example: star wars battle grounds.
tactic: tower rush.
a tower rush is when another player quickly techs to level 2, then proceds to build towers into and around your base. to the point that you cannot expand as there towers will kill all of your units. as towers generally require a seige type unit to destroy them, your tech 2 units are largly uneffective. this tactic effectivly removes you from the game as your rescource collection is hampered and you become a third world enemy.
i call this munchy.
but over all, it cannot be defined.
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one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
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Kraken
Federated Suns
Marshal
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 04-May-2002 19:11 Post subject: What is Munchy? |
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I ran into a kid who openly admitted to using Pack Hunters as his grunt units. He even complained to me because his personal unit, an assault-class walking missile turret, was too slow at 5/8 for the rest of his unit.
Bear in mind that this same guy said that the real BTech is too hard for him and that he prefers the video games.
(Dipwad even asked me if I knew what a Pack Hunter was. And yet he told me that he only knew the mechs he used when I asked him if he could tell me the loadout for the 3025 Shadow Hawk.)
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"I wish I could write as mysterious as a cat." -Edgar Allen Poe"I knew there was something special about you, but I never realized you were really a cat." Wolfwood to a random cat (Trigun)
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RFalcon
Clan Nova Cat
Star Captain
Joined: 01-May-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 04-May-2002 19:24 Post subject: What is Munchy? |
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Vagabond, I know I did, I'm just wondering what each person thinks is Munchy. Just curious...
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Nova Commander Tarn (Elam)
3rd BattleMech Star
1st Battle Trinary
8th Scorpion Uhlans (The Crimson Legion)
Gamma Galaxy (The Cave Dwellers)
Clan Golaith Scorpion
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Sir Henry
Team Bansai
Senior Tech Specialist
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4899
Location: United States
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| Posted: 04-May-2002 19:30 Post subject: What is Munchy? |
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Fritos, Lay's Potato Chips and.....uuummmmmm A mech that fires all it's weapons and jump and never get hot.....
Sir HEnry
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Sir Henry
A Dragon in the disguise of a bunny, is still a Dragon.
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 04-May-2002 20:09 Post subject: What is Munchy? |
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I think anyone that relies on the technology of the game over the strategy of the game is a munchkin.
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RFalcon
Clan Nova Cat
Star Captain
Joined: 01-May-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 04-May-2002 20:57 Post subject: What is Munchy? |
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What if they can do fine w/out the tech, they just like using it?
i.e. If you give them a crappy mech, but they can still win, but give them the choice and they choose high tech stuff, what then?
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Nova Commander Tarn (Elam)
3rd BattleMech Star
1st Battle Trinary
8th Scorpion Uhlans (The Crimson Legion)
Gamma Galaxy (The Cave Dwellers)
Clan Golaith Scorpion
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 04-May-2002 21:03 Post subject: What is Munchy? |
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My statement would still hold as in your example that person isn't relying on that technology to win.
I also seldom use custom mechs and my Mechwarrior campaigns don't allow customs (at least to lower ranked characters) so I seldom have this issue to worry about.
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Culverin
Draconis Combine
Gunsho
Joined: 15-Apr-2002 00:00
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Location: Canada
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| Posted: 04-May-2002 22:45 Post subject: What is Munchy? |
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munch or not.
if both sides fight with pulse/tc configs, it just shifts the frame of battletech to a more lethal one.
shifting the frame from assaults to lights.
the reason you die to us munchkins is that you are too set in your ways.
you wish for heavy and assault classes.
i wish for a 10/15/10
Clan LPL/TC speed demon.
if you used one as well, the game is balanced.
understood yet?
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Culverin, Lord of the Munchkins
Culverin's Domain
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 05-May-2002 07:59 Post subject: What is Munchy? |
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Doesn't matter if everyone is using it or not, if you can't win without relying on all the new tech you're a munchkin.
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ICER
Clan Hell's Horses
Galaxy Commander
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 05-May-2002 12:28 Post subject: What is Munchy? |
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Quote:
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On 2002-05-04 19:30, Sir Henry wrote:
Fritos, Lay's Potato Chips and.....uuummmmmm A mech that fires all it's weapons and jump and never get hot.....
Sir HEnry
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Why is that munchy? (The mech not the chips) That the trademark of a good design. Most of my mechs can do that.
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Talen
Capellan Confederation
Sang-shao
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1269
Location: United States
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| Posted: 05-May-2002 12:51 Post subject: What is Munchy? |
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Yeah, thats not munchy...thats good construction.
Here is what i see going on...to most people here, Munchy is exploiting chinks in the game system that allow Munchkin to be unbeatable. Now, this is what Ferrarri has accomplished in this season of F-1 racing. They have dumped so much money into the car and team that they are pretty much unbeatable. This makes all the other teams, and fans of the other teams, cry (myself included) "Foul". Nothing can really be designated "munchy" for these reasons:
A mech that can fire, move fast and jump with never heating up. That isnt munchy, its called good construction. Cant blame a person for having a good 'mech. BUT...they are munchy when they use that 'mech regardless of certain conditions...like they ignore the fact that it costs 40 million C-bills and use it like it is a 5 million C-bill mech. Thats munchy, and plain stupid cause you can field 1 'mech for 40 million while I field 2 lances worth of 5 million c-bill 'mechs...we'll see who wins.
Jumping from hex to hex and firing with long range weapons. Not munchy, just good tactics. it may get old...but it does win the day. And this tactic has been around since L1, so not only Munchinks use it, so no griping that one. Now...the munchy comes in when that is the tactic the person uses all the time. Thankfully, the die do not always go in their favor and they will get their's in the end.
Using L3 tech to win the day. Again, not munchy, just good use of available resources. And if the rules are followed properly, the weapons/tech are not unbalancing because they cost such a certain amount to field them. The munchy comes in when it used in excess without the governing rules being enforced. For this reason, most GMs wish to have things stay at L2 tech, because the weapons that would be used in an inapropriate manner wont be an issue.
So...in short conclussion, munchy is not defineable by any one action, instead it is a mixture of things that people just want to complain about. Generally the ones complaining dont like the way things go against them, so they cry "munch" when it serves their purpose.
The only other thing that must be addressed...RELYING on certain things like a uber-jumping no heat mech is not munchy. That is just failing to recognize how the game should be played. Said "Munchkins" should not be scorned, but they should be helped to understand that what they are doing isnt keeping with true game. If a player only knows L3 clan...they need to be shown the light...not outcasted.
Anyways, off my soap-box now. I'd love to have someone tell me what they think about what I am saying...
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Sir Henry
Team Bansai
Senior Tech Specialist
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| Posted: 06-May-2002 07:44 Post subject: What is Munchy? |
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It takes all the fun out of it. Where has the skill of Heat management and Movement gone, if you shoot everything and Jump and Not get hot.......Flaws are what make mechs fun th play....
Sir HEnry
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Sir Henry
A Dragon in the disguise of a bunny, is still a Dragon.
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