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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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 Posted: 01-Jan-2007 15:00 Post subject: Technology upgrade poll |
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Well, SD is curious today and he has a question. So, we all know how evil the clans are when it comes to comparing of weapon systems and now, if you had the choice, would you rather like the Inner Sphere to develop weapons (and only weapons, no FF, ...) that would match the power and range of their clan counterparts, OR their tonnage and the number of crits they have.
First option boosts mainly energy weapons and it also gives a small bonus to streak SRMs and negates LRM min. range.
Second option improves projectile weapons and greatly reduces the size of missile launchers.
So what would you chose and why? (The choices can only be made for all weapons, not for separate groups  ).
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 01-Jan-2007 15:04 Post subject: RE: Technology upgrade poll |
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I chose range and damage, because of the temptation of 15 point PPCs, long range pulse is great. (And because I think that this choice will be weaker.)
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Jan-2007 15:20 Post subject: RE: Technology upgrade poll |
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Hard call, given that we have seen the ELRMs from the Tactical Handbook and while nothing special they did add some attempt to give the IS a punch at range.
Then in Battletechnologies and such, there have been attempts at Heavy LRMs and SRMs which increase the damage of the warheads yet cuts the range or jacks the weight up.
Then there another option that I have used and seen used in different ways, is to go with extra range for the missiles but with lower ammo to booster engines on the missiles.
So its' a hard call really.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Knightrunner
Clan Snow Raven
Star Commander
Joined: 20-Jul-2005 00:00
Posts: 123
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| Posted: 03-Jan-2007 10:46 Post subject: RE: Technology upgrade poll |
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Well, the range and damage certainly have my vote. I'd say it comes down to comparing the three weapons types.
Ballistic: The only IS weapon that really comes close to Clan teach is the Gauss Rifle. Sure it's bigger and 3 tons heavier, but that hardly matters- because of its combination of range and damage. Reducing the size of ballistic weapons will be a minor improvement, at best, it's the weapons category where the IS is closest to parity with the Clans.
Missile: Cutting mass in half is a big plus, no doubt. But, it's not quite as great as it appears at first glance. Sure, you _could_ mount twice as many missile launchers, but only if you disregarded the extra ammo they'd need and extra heat they'd produce. And, if a mech has Artemis, extra launchers will need another ton each. For SRM's, IS streaks are only 50% heavier than those of the Clans- and have a shorter range. Not to mention that the ability to fire LRM's accurately at close range can come in really handy, especially for designs like the Archer.
Energy: Energy weapons are the Clans' most advanced weapons, compared to the Inner Sphere. But, they are almost the same size- the LL and ERPPC are both a single ton and a single crit space larger than their IS counterparts. ERML"S and ERSL's are the same size and produce the same heat, but have much better range and damage than IS versions. Heck, the Clans' ER Medium has nearly the performance of a standard Large Laser- for 20% of the tonnage! And doubling the range (and slightly increasing the damage) of pulse lasers makes them far, far deadlier. The only energy weapon that doesn't do far better by imrpoving range and damage over size is: the flamer. I'd be willing to make that trade-off.
A fun thought experiment. Thanks, Sleeping Dragon!
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Seraph
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Major
Joined: 11-Mar-2004 00:00
Posts: 1744
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| Posted: 03-Jan-2007 16:10 Post subject: RE: Technology upgrade poll |
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I would say size and tonnage.
IMO it would seem that to reduce the mass of an already produced item would be an easier and logical design path than making them shoot farther and do more damage for the same size. Granted it is easy to make a missle or bullet do more damage or fly farther, but at what cost? the shells would need more/better propellant and more/better explosives. Not much of a design trend, more of a field refit to me.
But take something in production now and compare it to what it was like even a few years ago. Hell, look at VCR's. They got a lot smaller and more affordable before they realy improved the quality of the image/sound produced. Same as TV's.
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5617
Location: United States
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| Posted: 03-Jan-2007 17:53 Post subject: RE: Technology upgrade poll |
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Quote:
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On 2007-01-01 15:00, Sleeping Dragon wrote:
Well, SD is curious today and he has a question. So, we all know how evil the clans are when it comes to comparing of weapon systems and now, if you had the choice, would you rather like the Inner Sphere to develop weapons (and only weapons, no FF, ...) that would match the power and range of their clan counterparts, OR their tonnage and the number of crits they have.
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Well, it has been said in the books and fiction that the NAIS is more then capable of producing Clan equivalent weaponry. They can make exact copies. However, they are neither capable of reducing the extreme cost of production or produce large quantities and that means whatever they make is for test purposes only.
So by that, we could have both... but then thats not the point of the poll.
Quote:
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First option boosts mainly energy weapons and it also gives a small bonus to streak SRMs and negates LRM min. range.
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This seems to have all the advantages right out the door. The Clans greatest advantages in one package.
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Second option improves projectile weapons and greatly reduces the size of missile launchers.
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I, however, choose this option. And why you ask? I do it for mainly for RP and Fluff reasons. As of 3050 and with the exception of the Guass, Ballistic and Missile weapons have lost their shine and luster. Everyone wants to go around with a mech mounting DHS and energy weapons because it is safer [no ammo] and requires less thought. You just mount DHS till you can Alpha and Run/Jump and then you never again need to track ammo or worry about it blowing. The other weapons became less powerful and liked do to their tromendous weight which had been worth paying in 3025 to get a high damage low heat weapon. With the advent of DHS that once upon a time cost is now no longer worth paying. Ammo using weapon just were not as usefull anymore. Now the game has offset this some by adding Ultra, LBX, Rotary, and Special Ammo and yet if given the choice between mounting a Ultra AC/20 or 2 CERPPCs darn near everyone would mount the CERPPCs.
If we were to get an offical movement that gave the IS better or near Clan equivalent energy weapons the game would see even less Ballistics and Missiles used by IS players. Were as if we were to get lighter and farthyer reaching Ballistics and Missile weapon [no range bonuses] we would see a rise in the number of such weapon used in designs and play. Once again something other then a Guass, Class 20 AC, or Rotary would be worth mounting in mass.
That is why i choose the Ballistcs.
Side note, Clan LRMs where initially intended to have Minimums but a printing error was made offical after a book was widely published. So it would be interesting to get a reduced min IS LRM. lol.
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one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
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Knightrunner
Clan Snow Raven
Star Commander
Joined: 20-Jul-2005 00:00
Posts: 123
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| Posted: 03-Jan-2007 23:46 Post subject: RE: Technology upgrade poll |
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| I agree about ballistic weapons losing a lot of their power. They (especially the 2 and 5 classes) need to be lighter to be used often. For the most part autocannons, especially the lighter ones, don't pull their own weight. I'd much rather see more work on lightening them so they'll be a viable option again. That's for fluff and drama reasons- if I were an IS researcher, I'd still be working on the range and damage increases.
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 04-Jan-2007 12:10 Post subject: RE: Technology upgrade poll |
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Thanks for your interesting answers. Originally I thought that size and range will be preferred, because more people like ballistic and missile weapons. Seeing a renaissance of ballistic and missile weapons wouldn't be bad at all, but that would depend on FanPro...
Since the great move against these groups was made by FASA (Double Heat Sink, or how the hell is the dirty blow called) the situation of these groups got worse, so things like RACs had to appear. Less tonnage and high damage counterweighted by higher heat output. Wasn't this traditional asset of energy weapons?
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Stinger
The Knights of Chaos
General
Joined: 30-Apr-2002 00:00
Posts: 1833
Location: United States
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| Posted: 04-Jan-2007 15:01 Post subject: RE: Technology upgrade poll |
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I have to agree with Vagabond on this, and I will admite that I fall into the category of energy weapon preferance, moslty because of the no ammo costs, though I dont believe in alpo-strikers, that being said I think helping out the ballistics weapons and LRM's should be inorder. As nice as range is MOST battles end up in knife fighting range anyway.
So having thought about this since the question was originally asked.
I would put this fourth as a way to upgrade the ballistics items. Ill put it in fluff terms.
"After the end of the clan wars most nations had gone back to lick thier wounds and start with a massive rebuilding project. As new mechs started to roll off the factory lines the general consensus from mechwarriors was to replace all ballistics and Missiles with more energy weapons as then didnt have to worry about ammo cooking off and they felt it gave them a better chance of surviving on the battlefield.
This revalation took many designers and reseachers by surprise, so they started looking at projectile weapons as a whole and started to evaluate ways to make them better and more desireable.
By 3061 many projectile weapon manufactures were experimenting with new lighter materials to replace some of the bulkier heavier steels used before. In many cases Ferro fibrous and composits were used to lighten the frame work but to keep the structural integrity as strong as the old models. This allowed for a weapon that weighs less and takes up a little less room. The biggest concern was to make the new weapons compatible with all of the old tech ammunitions. The new techniques have shaved up to 50% of the weight off of many of the old ballistic launchers, with the trade off for some higher heats as the composites tend to hold on to heat a little longer than the older materials."
Ballistics Heat Tonnage Crits
Ac2 2 3 1
Ac5 3 4 3
Ac10 6 6.5 5
Ac20 9 7.5 8
Missiles Heat Tonnage Crits
SRM2* 3 .5 1
SRM4* 4 1 1
SRM6* 5 1.5 2
LRM5 3 1 1
LRM10 5 2.5 1
LRM15 7 3.5 2
LRM20 9 5.5 4
* Streak SRM's add .5 tons to all launchers
And obviously its not perfect but its a start, a little play testing and tweaking is in order still.
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Stinger
If it's "creepy" to use the Internet, military satellites, and robot aircraft to find a house full of gorgeous young models so I can drop in on them unexpected, then FINE, I'm "creepy". Howard Wolowitz. BBT.
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Sir Henry
Team Bansai
Senior Tech Specialist
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4899
Location: United States
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| Posted: 04-Jan-2007 17:13 Post subject: RE: Technology upgrade poll |
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Why is SD talking in third person?
I think damage and range would be the way to go, but size and tonnage would also be affected.
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Sir Henry
A Dragon in the disguise of a bunny, is still a Dragon.
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 05-Jan-2007 13:14 Post subject: RE: Technology upgrade poll |
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Because he wants to (and sometimes does so when it suits him  )
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