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Goose
ComStar
Lieutenant, JG
Joined: 23-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 287
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 Posted: 14-Nov-2019 17:10 Post subject: Hellett APC |
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| Code: | BattleTech Vehicle Technical Readout
VALIDATED
Type/Model: Hellett APC
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3067
Config: Hovercraft
Rules: Level 3, Standard design
Mass: 21 tons
Power Plant: 105 DAV Fusion
Cruise Speed: 118.8 km/h
Maximum Speed: 183.6 km/h
Armor Type: Reactive
Armament:
1 Small X-Pulse Laser
1 Laser AMS
Manufacturer: (Unknown)
Location: (Unknown)
Communications System: (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System: (Unknown)
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Hellett APC
Mass: 21 tons
Construction Options: Fractional Accounting
Equipment: Items Mass
Int. Struct.: 15 pts Standard 0 2.10
Engine: 105 Fusion 0 3.50
Shielding & Transmission Equipment: 0 1.75
Cruise MP: 11
Flank MP: 17
Heat Sinks: 10 Single 0 .00
Cockpit & Controls: 0 1.05
Crew: 2 Members 0 .00
Lift Equipment: 0 2.10
Turret Equipment: 0 .25
Armor Factor: 28 pts Reactive 2 1.75
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Front: 3 9
Left / Right Sides: 3 5/5
Rear: 3 4
Turret: 3 5
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Items Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 Small X-Pulse Laser Turret 3 1 1.00
1 Laser AMS Turret 7 1 1.50
Infantry Bay Body 1 6.00
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 10 5 21.00
Items & Tons Left: 4 .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 752,955 C-Bills
Battle Value 2: 216 (old BV = 122)
Cost per BV: 3,485.9
Weapon Value: 11 / 11 (Ratio = .05 / .05)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 2; MRDmg = 0; LRDmg = 0
BattleForce2: MP: 11H, Armor/Structure: 0 / 1
Damage PB/M/L: -/-/-, Overheat: 0
Class: GL; Point Value: 2
Specials: tran6 |
 You might have noticed me beating around the bush, the last couple'a days: Trying to apply Fuzzi-Waszi to troop transports.
Soooo six battle armor suits, or two platoons of foot, all trained to dismount as soon as you suspect enemy contact.
I think an Armored Drivetrain Hover will cost 2/3s more then this … But be worth it? 
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Goose
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 15-Nov-2019 20:22 Post subject: Hellett APC |
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I like it.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 17-Nov-2019 23:24 Post subject: Hellett APC |
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The question is, what are you trying to achieve with it.
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Goose
ComStar
Lieutenant, JG
Joined: 23-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 287
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| Posted: 27-Nov-2019 21:52 Post subject: Hellett APC |
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I keep trying to balance prioritizes, as my feedback loop rejects examples.
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Goose
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Goose
ComStar
Lieutenant, JG
Joined: 23-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 287
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| Posted: 27-Nov-2019 21:56 Post subject: Hellett APC |
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| Code: | BattleTech Vehicle Technical Readout
VALIDATED
Type/Model: Invasion Engine Lambda
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3067
Config: Hovercraft
Rules: Level 3, Standard design
Mass: 21 tons
Power Plant: 125 Nissan Fusion
Cruise Speed: 129.6 km/h
Maximum Speed: 194.4 km/h
Armor Type: Reactive
Armament:
1 Small X-Pulse Laser
1 Laser AMS
Manufacturer: (Unknown)
Location: (Unknown)
Communications System: (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System: (Unknown)
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Invasion Engine Lambda
Mass: 21 tons
Construction Options: Fractional Accounting
Equipment: Items Mass
Int. Struct.: 12 pts Standard 0 2.10
Engine: 125 Fusion 0 4.00
Shielding & Transmission Equipment: 0 2.00
Cruise MP: 12
Flank MP: 18
Heat Sinks: 10 Single 0 .00
Cockpit & Controls: 0 1.05
Crew: 2 Members 0 .00
Lift Equipment: 0 2.10
Armor Factor: 20 pts Reactive 2 1.25
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Front: 3 7
Left / Right Sides: 3 5/5
Rear: 3 3
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Items Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 Small X-Pulse Laser Front 3 1 1.00
1 Laser AMS Front 7 1 1.50
Infantry Bay Body 1 6.00
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 10 5 21.00
Items & Tons Left: 4 .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 769,640 C-Bills
Battle Value 2: 204 (old BV = 117)
Cost per BV: 3,772.75
Weapon Value: 8 / 8 (Ratio = .04 / .04)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 2; MRDmg = 0; LRDmg = 0
BattleForce2: MP: 12H, Armor/Structure: 0 / 1
Damage PB/M/L: -/-/-, Overheat: 0
Class: GL; Point Value: 2
Specials: tran6 |
Speed, or turreted defenses?
Or does the Nissan 125 make for a better engine to standardize upon?
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Goose
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 28-Nov-2019 02:56 Post subject: Hellett APC |
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Yeah, but what are those priorities? Try to sum them up as if you produced specs for a vehicle to a contractor. What do you want the vehicle to do? What capabilities are a minimum. And so on.
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Goose
ComStar
Lieutenant, JG
Joined: 23-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 287
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| Posted: 28-Nov-2019 16:51 Post subject: Hellett APC |
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Well: I’m on a Fuzzi-Wazzi kick, lately.
The merc in me wants effective, then cheap, gear to get the job done. (I do hope everyone reading this will agree “the other way around” is Just Bad.) Since all the good pay if for planetary assault, playing nice with small dropship bays is key … The same way avoiding the logistics train of gas-burners is also key.
The primary fun of this game is in brawling for the objective, but that’s’ telling us something about the state-level Intel game, which I’m trying not to address. (I know bum-rushes aren’t fun to play, but it’s good strategy.)
On the assumption ones’ Prime Beef has moved the front line around you, you need to occupy the ground they/you just took, if only to suppress irregulars with sniper rifles. Real demoralizing, them.
Now because you can’t fit enough infantry to occupy every square klick of a planet into a timely flotilla of dropships, you need the kind of ground transport, which will multiply their force. But because such transport both draws fire, and gets pressed into service as cover for its' troops, it needs to be hardened enough, at a bare minimum, to allow its’ charges to dismount.
May I remind you, when a vehicle zeros-out any given internal structure location, everyone on-board goes squish. The effects on moral should be obvious.
Because you are a merc, and you bill on the cost-plus model, having the manpower to hold terrain has a certain appeal, but diluting your overall skill pool it the natural limit to this gambit.
And it is incumbent upon one to keep your forces yours, by paying well and demonstrating more command competence and/ or human resource maintenance then they can provide for themselves.
But I Digress …
(Part One of mumble)
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Goose
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 30-Nov-2019 08:17 Post subject: Hellett APC |
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Now when you are playing with the bays there are things to consider. Just like me I loath to use a heavy vehicle bay when I can use a small one as this means that you can have two vehicles in the same space. Dropship space is the limiting factor when moving forces in BT. You can, on the other hand use a full 50 ton vehicle in the same space as 10 ton one, so unless the speed is the factor you can easily use an APC more akin to israeli Namer - an MBT hull without a turret, but with full MBT armour, rather than some light flimsy things like a russian BMD line that is made with air transportability in mind. It's all the same as long as you don't crawl over 50 tons. So long as you don't want to bulk-store your vehicles in crates in your regular cargo space that is. They wouldn't be immediately deployable, but you could carry a lot of them.
Then you said you want to go cheap and fast and avoid fuel. For normal missions it doesn't matter much as the vehicles fully tanked have a 400 km range for fuel cell or 500 km for I.C.E. and you have a drop ship behind your back, which negates this problems IMO, unless you want to make long running engagements often. And without environmental sealing you still can't use these APCs outside of I.C.E. compatible environments unless you invest there as well.
Then toward protection if you want to play in a way where you just drive there and disgorge the infantry as fast as possible and fade away you might want to consider an armour scheme where you have a PPC or gauss impenetrability over the front and maybe a turret with a first hit and survivability over the side which would mean 16 points over the front and turret and like 10-internal structure over the sides and at least 5 or 6 points over the rear as bare minimum. If you want to hug the map edge and hope for no more than an occasional PPC hit from afar, rather than staying and actually using some onboard weaponry to support the infantry.
Also sonsider whether the wheels wouldn't do as they are not fancy, but can get you there for a very reasonalble cost.
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Goose
ComStar
Lieutenant, JG
Joined: 23-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 287
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| Posted: 27-Dec-2019 13:38 Post subject: Hellett APC |
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Before my spacie-self forgets again:
| Code: | BattleTech Vehicle Technical Readout
VALIDATED
Type/Model: Invasion Engine Tau
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3067
Config: Hovercraft
Rules: Level 3, Standard design
Mass: 21 tons
Power Plant: 125 Nissan Fusion
Cruise Speed: 129.6 km/h
Maximum Speed: 194.4 km/h
Armor Type: Reactive
Armament:
1 Laser AMS
Manufacturer: (Unknown)
Location: (Unknown)
Communications System: (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System: (Unknown)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
==Capabilities:==
Narrow Profile 3
Compact 1
Difficult to Maintain -1
Non-Stabdard Parts -1
Exposed Weapon Linkage (L-AMS) -2
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Invasion Engine Tau
Mass: 21 tons
Construction Options: Fractional Accounting
Equipment: Items Mass
Int. Struct.: 15 pts Standard 0 2.10
Engine: 125 Fusion 0 4.00
Shielding & Transmission Equipment: 0 2.00
Cruise MP: 12
Flank MP: 18
Heat Sinks: 10 Single 0 .00
Cockpit & Controls: 0 1.05
Crew: 2 Members 0 .00
Lift Equipment: 0 2.10
Turret Equipment: 0 .15
Armor Factor: 33 pts Reactive 2 2.06
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Front: 3 9
Left / Right Sides: 3 7/7
Rear: 3 5
Turret: 3 5
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Items Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 Laser AMS Turret 7 1 1.50
Battlesuit Couch Body 1 1.00
Battlesuit Couch Body 1 1.00
Battlesuit Couch Body 1 1.00
Battlesuit Couch Body 1 1.00
Battlesuit Couch Body 1 1.00
Battlesuit Couch Body 1 1.00
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 7 9 20.96
Items & Tons Left: 0 .04
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 761,191 C-Bills
Battle Value 2: 186 (old BV = 72)
Cost per BV: 4,092.42
Weapon Value: 0 / 0 (Ratio = .00 / .00)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 0; MRDmg = 0; LRDmg = 0
BattleForce2: MP: 12H, Armor/Structure: 0 / 2
Damage PB/M/L: -/-/-, Overheat: 0
Class: GL; Point Value: 2 |
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Goose
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Goose
ComStar
Lieutenant, JG
Joined: 23-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 287
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| Posted: 27-Dec-2019 15:49 Post subject: Hellett APC |
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| Code: | BattleTech Vehicle Technical Readout
VALIDATED
Type/Model: Invasion Engine Rho
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3067
Config: Hovercraft
Rules: Level 3, Standard design
Mass: 21 tons
Power Plant: 125 Nissan Fusion
Cruise Speed: 129.6 km/h
Maximum Speed: 194.4 km/h
Armor Type: Reactive
Armament:
1 Small X-Pulse Laser
1 Laser AMS
Manufacturer: (Unknown)
Location: (Unknown)
Communications System: (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System: (Unknown)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
==Capabilities:==
Narrow Profile 3
Compact 1
Difficult to Maintain -1
Non-Stabdard Parts -1
Exposed Weapon Linkage (L-AMS) -2
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Invasion Engine Rho
Mass: 21 tons
Construction Options: Fractional Accounting
Equipment: Items Mass
Int. Struct.: 15 pts Standard 0 2.10
Engine: 125 Fusion 0 4.00
Shielding & Transmission Equipment: 0 2.00
Cruise MP: 12
Flank MP: 18
Heat Sinks: 10 Single 0 .00
Cockpit & Controls: 0 1.05
Crew: 2 Members 0 .00
Lift Equipment: 0 2.10
Turret Equipment: 0 .25
Armor Factor: 32 pts Reactive 2 2.00
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Front: 3 9
Left / Right Sides: 3 7/7
Rear: 3 4
Turret: 3 5
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Items Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 Small X-Pulse Laser Turret 3 1 1.00
1 Laser AMS Turret 7 1 1.50
Infantry Bay Body 1 1.00
Infantry Bay Body 1 1.00
Infantry Bay Body 1 1.00
Infantry Bay Body 1 1.00
Infantry Bay Body 1 1.00
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 10 9 21.00
Items & Tons Left: 0 .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 803,365 C-Bills
Battle Value 2: 241 (old BV = 128)
Cost per BV: 3,333.46
Weapon Value: 12 / 12 (Ratio = .05 / .05)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 2; MRDmg = 0; LRDmg = 0
BattleForce2: MP: 12H, Armor/Structure: 0 / 2
Damage PB/M/L: -/-/-, Overheat: 0
Class: GL; Point Value: 2
Specials: tran5 |
Heh: Feel better your ride doesn't draw as much fire? 
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Goose
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 27-Dec-2019 18:48 Post subject: Hellett APC |
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The last one, why so many separate infantry bays?
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Goose
ComStar
Lieutenant, JG
Joined: 23-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 287
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| Posted: 28-Dec-2019 01:15 Post subject: Hellett APC |
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That's the idea, but maybe I'm expressing myself badly …
So it's been put forth "a vehicle `space' will hold, at most, six troops." Ergo: 28 men will eat 5 "spaces."
How does this apply to power armor troops? I don't know, but I assume they would take one each.
Can't be sooo bad …
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Goose
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 29-Dec-2019 12:16 Post subject: Hellett APC |
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Didn't they explain this issue away yet? I thought they did?
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Rudel Gurken
Allisters Light Thunder
Major
Joined: 15-Jun-2005 00:00
Posts: 1456
Location: Germany
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| Posted: 29-Dec-2019 16:45 Post subject: Re: Hellett APC |
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| Goose wrote: |
So it's been put forth "a vehicle `space' will hold, at most, six troops." Ergo: 28 men will eat 5 "spaces." |
Where does that come from?
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Reality is where the Pizza-man comes from!'Gucken, petzen, verpissen!' (Look at it, squeal it, get the hell away from it!) – Motto of the recon troops'Artillery doesn´t know friend or foe! They only know worthwhile targets!‘ – Kuritan Infantrist
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Goose
ComStar
Lieutenant, JG
Joined: 23-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 287
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| Posted: 29-Dec-2019 20:39 Post subject: Hellett APC |
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If I said "the idea goes all the way back to Car Wars," I'd be showing my age. 
But really: You read between the lines of the linked post, and the point becomes sharp. Here: bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=59729.msg1370507#msg1370507
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Goose
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[Last edited by Goose on 02-Jan-2020 15:41; edited 1 time in total]
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