|
|
Mordel's Bar & Grill |
|
|
» |
View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
RFalcon Clan Nova Cat Star Captain
Joined: 01-May-2002 00:00 Posts: 156 Location: United States
|
Posted: 08-Jul-2002 14:24 Post subject: And we are getting closer... |
|
|
Quote:
| Aviation Week & Space Technology
July 8, 2002
Lasers Being Developed For F-35 And AC-130
Directed-energy devices are emerging from the 'black' world as weapons for manned and unmanned aircraft
By David A. Fulghum, Washington
Lockheed Martin is tailoring a laser for the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter that could be ready as early as 2010 for demonstration and the start of a full-scale development program.
Variants of the solid-state laser, powered by a drive shaft from an aircraft's engine instead of batteries, also are being considered for use on AC-130 gunships and Lockheed Martin-designed unmanned aircraft. The high-energy laser system is being designed in a joint project with Raytheon.
An advantage of a directed-energy weapon is that it can shoot indefinitely and is limited only by the ability to cool it, and it's covert. "There's no huge explosion associated with its employment," a Lockheed Martin official said. "There are no pieces and parts left behind that someone can analyze to say, 'This came from the U.S.' The damage is very localized, and it's hard to tell where it came from and when it happened. It's all pretty mysterious."
A foe would be left largely clueless trying to analyze what happened and why. Planners envision scenarios where fires are set, electronic components are damaged and computer memories are erased with no collateral damage or injury to those near the target.
A Defense Science Board study last year said that several technology breakthroughs have moved high-energy lasers on fighters into the realm of the possible. Among them was increased electrical power-generation capability achieved under the "More-Electric Aircraft Project." The DSB contends that aircraft systems will be able to provide one megawatt of power in less than five years. Other rapidly developing technologies allow smaller packaging of systems. These include advanced solid-state lasers, chemical lasers with electro-regeneration of chemicals and fiber lasers.
The technical hurdles include compensating for vibrations and high g-forces that can punish the laser and beam-control system and turbulence around the aircraft. "The beam control system must be extremely dynamic to account for these fast transient processes occurring at kilohertz rates," the report said.
Lockheed Martin looked at laser concepts from TRW, Boeing and Textron, but Raytheon's appeared to be the most advanced, a company official said. Raytheon's solid-state design is "particularly suitable for JSF because it's very compact and shows promise for achieving the necessary power levels and beam quality," the Lockheed Martin official said. "The other companies don't appear to feel as confident in their ability to buy or develop a suitable laser." Company officials are also hoping that the Air Force Research Laboratory's directed-energy directorate at Kirtland AFB, N.M., or the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency would fund some of the solid-state laser development.
A first-generation laser weapon would be able to engage aerial targets such as cruise missiles and enemy aircraft, as well as ground targets such as antiaircraft missile sites and ground vehicles. These capabilities would likely require laser power of 100 kw., analysts predict.
"That's about the minimum threshold to be a weapon," the Lockheed Martin official said. "Less than that and it's only useful against soft targets. One hundred kilowatts would also let targets be engaged at tactically significant ranges."
Except for self-defense, laser weapon designers think the minimum effective range is about 6 mi. for a fighter aircraft. As the power of solid-state lasers improves with the maturation of new technology, the range of directed-energy weapons would increase. Ideally, the laser-equipped aircraft would also carry conventional munitions. The F-35, for example, won't give up any weapon-carriage capability when the laser is installed, and it will allow a combination of effects. Lasers can provide low collateral damage and covert attack. Conventional weapons would provide longer range strike.
"Laser and HPM [high-power microwave] weapons are more like an avionics system," a company official said. "You don't go out, drop three and go home. It's always on the air vehicle, you use it when you want and, at least with solid-state technology, you're not going to run out of power."
The concept for F-35 is to have a turret, centered on the lift-fan cavity, which would extend when needed from the bottom of the aircraft. The system would be installed in the space just aft of the cockpit that was carved out to hold the vertical lift fan. With a single turret, the directed-energy weapon would be most effective against ground targets, low-flying airborne targets and for self-defense.
While conceptually the one-turret aircraft could be maneuvered to fire at other aircraft or air-to-air missiles, planners are dubious. "There's not always time to maneuver, especially in close-in self-defense situations, so you want multiple apertures," a Lockheed Martin official said. Therefore, company designers are considering a second turret that would extend from the top of the lift-fan space to cover the upper hemisphere around the aircraft. They don't yet know if they can make both turrets fit into the space that they must share with target trackers, laser, optics, power and cooling. "It will be a trade of coverage versus internal volume," he said. There also would be the option of flying a mix of aircraft, some specialized for air-to-air and others for ground attack. For demonstration purposes, the laser system would likely be installed first on a pod and later on an early model JSF airframe.
Lockheed Martin believes it has a distinct advantage in getting directed-energy weapons into the field because the F-35's unique design will allow it to supply a great deal of electrical power. Instead of having to rely on heavy, short-lived batteries to run the laser, it will be fed electrical power generated by a drive shaft run from the main engine. In the Marine Corps' short-takeoff, vertical-landing version of the F-35, the drive shaft will power the vertical lift fan. But for the Air Force and Navy versions, the empty spaces designed for the lift fan and cannon could be used for the laser weapon.
"The drive shaft has the [potential] of producing multi-megawatts of power in real time without hurting the aircraft's performance," the Lockheed Martin official said. The shaft from the engine can produce more than 27,000 shp. to drive a generator. But the rate of fire and recycle time for a laser weapon, particularly against targets at long range, may be limited by the need for thermal cooling. "You can't fire forever," he said. "The challenge is doing the cooling in near real time." What the duty cycle will be has still to be determined, but some specialists suggest that at least initially it might be a 4-sec. burst, followed by 4 sec. of cooling, then another 4-sec. burst and finally a 30-sec. cool-down before engaging two more targets.
Directed-energy, self-defense weapons with a fast recycle time for multiple shots (since two or more antiaircraft missiles are usually fired together) is considered a key concept for future warfare. By 2025, many U.S. Air Force planners believe multispectral sensor technology will overtake the ability of stealth designs to protect aircraft from air defenses.
Directed-energy weapons fall into two categories so far: high-energy lasers and HPM. Farther in the future is a plasma of ionized gas molecules that might resemble a bolt of lightning.
Lasers use thermal effects to quickly blow holes in targets, and they are being designed for use in manned aircraft, say Air Force and aerospace industry officials. A laser beam can be focused on a fuel tank to produce catastrophic damage, or it can be focused on a vehicle's engine to simply disable it. Generally, however, it is a lethal, longer range weapon.
HPM is most effective in attacking electronics, particularly computers where spikes of high power can damage components and erase computer memories. This kind of technology is seen as the weapon of choice for unmanned aircraft because spurious emissions might affect safety of flight. |
|
Any thoughts...
_________________ Nova Commander Tarn (Elam)
3rd BattleMech Star
1st Battle Trinary
8th Scorpion Uhlans (The Crimson Legion)
Gamma Galaxy (The Cave Dwellers)
Clan Golaith Scorpion
|
|
Back to top |
|
Kraken Federated Suns Marshal
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00 Posts: 2755 Location: United States
|
Posted: 08-Jul-2002 14:58 Post subject: And we are getting closer... |
|
|
Take a look at Honda's Asimo robot. We can do bipedal construction with articulation on small scales- it shouldn't be too much longer for larger scales. Plus, we've got limited autoloading technology, and our electronics get better by the day. We could, realistically, see actual mecha in 20 years or so if enough military personell really wanted one.
_________________ "I wish I could write as mysterious as a cat." -Edgar Allen Poe"I knew there was something special about you, but I never realized you were really a cat." Wolfwood to a random cat (Trigun)
|
|
Back to top |
|
Gangrene Federated Suns Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00 Posts: 939 Location: United States
|
Posted: 08-Jul-2002 15:35 Post subject: And we are getting closer... |
|
|
The laser post is real interesting. There have been talk of plans floating around for a few years that revolve around a modified heavy aircraft with a huge laser in it that would intercept incoming ICBM's. Lasers are coming into play.
The only problem I see with them, and this has a tendency to be overlooked, is that you have to actually hit what you're aiming at. A stray laser shot could do a lot of damage.
Kraken, I don't think real-life mechs are coming anytime soon. While the technology may be available, there also must exist a need for them. In real life I doubt a walking robot would do well against a tank. About the only thing it would have an advantage in is terrain handling capabilities.
_________________ Gangrene
|
|
Back to top |
|
Cadet ComStar Lieutenant, SG
Joined: 17-Mar-2002 00:00 Posts: 495
|
Posted: 08-Jul-2002 17:14 Post subject: And we are getting closer... |
|
|
The capability has been around for a while for a vehicle and man based lasrer weaposn, but the problem is that the power source has to be about the size of a moving van.
_________________ I'm not family friendly. That's why I don't post here.
|
|
Back to top |
|
Nightmare Lyran Alliance Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00 Posts: 2214
|
Posted: 08-Jul-2002 17:24 Post subject: And we are getting closer... |
|
|
It`s like the Knight Rider tv show
Engineers said they could easily (?) build a vehicle like K.I.T.T., but there would be a few minor differences. Such as it being the size of a full-rig trailer combination, weighing in at 200 tons...
_________________ A tree fall in the forest, and no one is around, and it hits a mime. Does anyone care?
|
|
Back to top |
|
Black_Phoenix Clan Nova Cat Star Colonel
Joined: 23-Jun-2002 00:00 Posts: 382
|
Posted: 08-Jul-2002 20:08 Post subject: And we are getting closer... |
|
|
I caught a Discovery Channel special about some of the weapons in testing. One was a massive laser used to destroy ICBM's, and is mounted inside of a 747 chassis. There are also smaller, more precise lasers for shooting the fuel tanks of missiles still on the ground, or the vehicles carrying them. The final weapon was a rail gun, not very new, but they are getting close to making it, and its generators, compact enough for use on a tank.
There were also "smart guns" that calculated how to fire bullets just right, and had very low recoil (they are not hand-held). And "smart bullets" which explode when there near an enemy. I would doubt the last will become popular, because they require microchips to know when to explode.
_________________ History is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.
-Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz
|
|
Back to top |
|
Ares Clan Jade Falcon Star Colonel
Joined: 20-Feb-2002 00:00 Posts: 737
|
Posted: 08-Jul-2002 22:03 Post subject: And we are getting closer... |
|
|
I think you might be referring to the OICW, which used electronic fuzing for it's underbarrel 40mm GL. It's got optics on it with a built in laser range-finder, and it prog.s there 'nades to airburst into a target.
EDIT: nice to see their making a PPC, too
[ This Message was edited by: Ares on 2002-07-08 22:04 ] _________________ I have the right to remain silent. Anything I say will undoubtedly incriminate me.
|
|
Back to top |
|
Sir Henry Team Bansai Senior Tech Specialist
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00 Posts: 4899 Location: United States
|
Posted: 09-Jul-2002 07:35 Post subject: And we are getting closer... |
|
|
I'd like to see a Tank mounted Guass Rifle....an M1a Rail Gun.....
Sir Henry
_________________ Sir Henry
A Dragon in the disguise of a bunny, is still a Dragon.
|
|
Back to top |
|
MEX Clan Blood Spirit Star Colonel
Joined: 21-Mar-2002 00:00 Posts: 440 Location: Austria
|
Posted: 09-Jul-2002 08:03 Post subject: And we are getting closer... |
|
|
Quote:
| On 2002-07-09 07:35, Sir Henry wrote:
I'd like to see a Tank mounted Guass Rifle....an M1a Rail Gun..... |
|
I am sure they will use Rail Guns on Naval vessels first.
|
|
Back to top |
|
Ares Clan Jade Falcon Star Colonel
Joined: 20-Feb-2002 00:00 Posts: 737
|
Posted: 09-Jul-2002 09:39 Post subject: And we are getting closer... |
|
|
I'm not sure about that Mex. I mean, what would we do with it? We phased out all our heavy cruisers and battleships because heavy guns are just not effective on ships anymore compared to aircraft or cruise missiles. Being a direct-fire weapon, maybe it could be used as a long-range bomber intercept, but then, we already have the F-14 to accomplish that role, along with the many others it serves.
EDIT: Now that I think about it some more, it would be a very effective anti-ship weapon if yout targeted a fuel bunker or a VTOL stack. It might have anti-sub capabilities also. Considering that you would be able to fit the generators required onto a naval vessel, they probaly will be used on them first.
[ This Message was edited by: Ares on 2002-07-09 09:41 ] _________________ I have the right to remain silent. Anything I say will undoubtedly incriminate me.
|
|
Back to top |
|
Kraken Federated Suns Marshal
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00 Posts: 2755 Location: United States
|
Posted: 09-Jul-2002 10:53 Post subject: And we are getting closer... |
|
|
An issue of Popular Science that I found once (2000) said that there will be some new types of naval vessels using a specialized trimarin hull construction. The largest of them, which will essentially be a small battleship, is slated to carry rail guns.
_________________ "I wish I could write as mysterious as a cat." -Edgar Allen Poe"I knew there was something special about you, but I never realized you were really a cat." Wolfwood to a random cat (Trigun)
|
|
Back to top |
|
Pinhead The Bloody Clans
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00 Posts: 1258 Location: United States
|
Posted: 09-Jul-2002 11:30 Post subject: And we are getting closer... |
|
|
One of the problems with mounting something like a rail gun on a Naval vessel is corrosion..
And I wanted to say that not all laser power sources are the size of a moving van. I know of one that fits in a hip pouch.
Pin _________________ "My Blood is not mine to give, it belongs to my Brothers"
|
|
Back to top |
|
Black_Phoenix Clan Nova Cat Star Colonel
Joined: 23-Jun-2002 00:00 Posts: 382
|
Posted: 09-Jul-2002 12:07 Post subject: And we are getting closer... |
|
|
Quote:
|
On 2002-07-08 22:03, Ares wrote:
I think you might be referring to the OICW, which used electronic fuzing for it's underbarrel 40mm GL. It's got optics on it with a built in laser range-finder, and it prog.s there 'nades to airburst into a target.
EDIT: nice to see their making a PPC, too
|
|
That sounds right. I know that the weapon was always refered to in its acronym form, since they did not have a short name for it. I think that the version you are talking about is the hand held version. That one does not have the ability to calculate a properly aimed shot, but can program the grenades. The other sits on the ground and is designed to detremine the proper way of firing to hit a target. It can also carry the smart bullets. It has little recoil in the "body" of the gun, because the barrel moves back to bleed off the momentum.
_________________ History is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.
-Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz
|
|
Back to top |
|
Stinger The Knights of Chaos General
Joined: 30-Apr-2002 00:00 Posts: 1833 Location: United States
|
Posted: 09-Jul-2002 12:16 Post subject: And we are getting closer... |
|
|
Mostly what you would get from a MECH strickforce if the sheer terror factor. So a psycological edge is going to give you some advantage, But Ive always thought that mechs should be a bit more fragile compared to a tank (Ive actually started to use more tanks in my games now as under LVL 3 rules they are MUCH nastier than befor and allow for longer life)
Imagine the first battle. The MECH is plodding through the forest twards the dug in infantry.
It would most likely end with "SHOOT, SHOOT" "you shoot sarge! I crapped my pants!"
Stinger _________________ Stinger If it's "creepy" to use the Internet, military satellites, and robot aircraft to find a house full of gorgeous young models so I can drop in on them unexpected, then FINE, I'm "creepy". Howard Wolowitz. BBT.
|
|
Back to top |
|
Talen Capellan Confederation Sang-shao
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00 Posts: 1269 Location: United States
|
Posted: 09-Jul-2002 13:29 Post subject: And we are getting closer... |
|
|
Well, the problem with a Naval mounted rail gun is the limited range. As a weapon, it would have an incredible range, no doubt, and could pick off some airborne targets easily...but realistically the gun has a range of 7 miles due to curvature of the Earth (i hope I am right with that number, cant really remember, I just know its pretty low.) Now, most cruise missles and enemy bombers fly pretty damn low. 50-100 feet above the surface of the water. That only leaves, say, 7-8 miles of interception time using the rail gun. Now, the Aegis system is a beautiful thing. I get chills thinking of its firing rate. It can operate at a much safer range. So...whatever gets through the Aegis and makes it to 7 miles is already most likely to be handeled by the Phalanx CIWS. The Rail gun becomes a very expensive and mostly useless weapon. I COULD see it being used to protect convoys (a la Red Storm Rising), but again, the weapon has very little offensive capability, and limited defenseive capability on a large ship.
-Talen-Because I think I know what I'm talking about...
_________________ "Historians exercise great power and some of them know it. They recreate the past, changing it to fit their own interpretations. Thus, they change the future as well." - Leto II
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
» |
All times are GMT-05:00 |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum You cannot attach files in this forum You can download files in this forum
|
|
|
|
|
|