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Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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 Posted: 28-Aug-2002 19:31 Post subject: Spoilers on the WoB Jihad... |
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Anyone wanting some spoilers on the WoB Jihad just go to the Comstar INN page and lookup worlds such as Outreach, Terra, New Earth...practically anything in Prefecture X...
Some of you have gotten your wish...you'll know what I mean when you see...
And Karagin, this answers your question about how the WoB could do what they did...
Ruger
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Alexander
Heavy Horse Merc Brigade
Commanding Officer
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: Canada
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| Posted: 28-Aug-2002 21:42 Post subject: RE: Spoilers on the WoB Jihad... |
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You know, the article on Outreach, and how the Dragoons were destroyed seems awfully(!) similar to what Old Dog posted here not too long ago! Except sub-out the Waco's and put in the Wobbies!
Alexander (Thinking Wizkids steals ideas...)
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War is God's way of teaching geography.
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Commanding Officer, North West Armoured Cavalry
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 28-Aug-2002 22:12 Post subject: RE: Spoilers on the WoB Jihad... |
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Gotta love giving away the future events...and the only thing I see on the INN Comstar thing is events about Towne and that is it...
Could you actually post the link you are referring to please.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
[ This Message was edited by: Karagin on 2002-08-28 22:29 ]
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Jade_Dragon
8th Sword of Light
Sho-sho
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 29-Aug-2002 13:25 Post subject: RE: Spoilers on the WoB Jihad... |
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Actually this doesn't answer anything, it just tells us what we all already knew that they went over board on the use of NBC (Nuclear, Biological, and Chemical) Weapons and have some mercs working for them...
IT is amazing how the WoB forces just happen to have just enough forces and know just how to beat the Dragoons...sorry but again this is really become trite and all it shows is away to remove older units from the universe.
Nothing is answered as to my questions and so I will wait until the info is actually out in detail, not bits and pieces.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Horhiro
Draconis Combine
Samurai
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 29-Aug-2002 18:16 Post subject: RE: Spoilers on the WoB Jihad... |
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The nukes and such are a means to an end. That end being Mechwarrior:DA. To have a "dark age" one must see the BT universe pounded back down to snot. The FedCom Civil war helped to do that to a certain degree, but alone it is not enough. This WOB jihad will get very ugly quickly and bring about a new chapter in BT history.
IIRC 3025 BT owes it's degrading tech status to the barbaric violence of the first 3 succession wars were nukes were also used.
We've already seen the end of one Star League era and now we'll see the end of another, and we need widespread destruction and annhilation to get there.
Just remember how the old guard wept when Star Trek:TNG came out. They feared change. Well guess what? The only thing constant is change. (Heck, I'm still weeping that they killed off Justin Xiang Allard  )
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"I have lived my life trying to be a virtuous man. The Dragon admires tenacity, and the code of the samurai upholds it as well." -Minobu Tetsuhara
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Paul
Capellan Confederation
Sang-wei
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 255
Location: United States
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| Posted: 02-Sep-2002 16:20 Post subject: RE: Spoilers on the WoB Jihad... |
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Actually this doesn't answer anything, it just tells us what we all already knew that they went over board on the use of NBC (Nuclear, Biological, and Chemical) Weapons and have some mercs working for them...
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And a fleet that could take on the Wolf Dragoon fleet, and wipe it out.
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IT is amazing how the WoB forces just happen to have just enough forces and know just how to beat the Dragoons...sorry but again this is really become trite and all it shows is away to remove older units from the universe.
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Know just how to beat the Dragoons? Are you kidding me? The detail on Outreach leaves little to the imagination when it comes to the overwhelming amount of force and brutality the Dragoons were subjected to. A surprise attack took out their capital, and likely a chunk of Dragoons. A surprise attack by the WoB fleet overwhelmed the Dragoon fleet, then proceded to bombard and nuke what was left.
What's so hard to believe? WoB has been rearming since before FASA closed its doors. The writting has been on the wall since the fall of Terra. Would WoB have had enough forces to take out everyone in a fair one on one conventional war? Of course not, and obviously, they didn't play it fair. They revisted the First Succesion War on the core of the Inner Sphere, with the distinction that their targets almost certainly didn't have the WoMD to respond in kind.
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Nothing is answered as to my questions and so I will wait until the info is actually out in detail, not bits and pieces.
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I wouldn't mind a MWDA or RotS or Jihad sourcebook neither. Maybe we'll get one one day.
Meanwhile, what more do you need? A TO&E of WoB forces and how many mercs they employed? That'd be nice, and likely provides a picture that'll only get more clear if they ever publish a wave by wave report of the Jihad, but why exactly is it necessary?
WoB used WoMD to an elaborate degree. A great force equalizer.
When they fought, they used overwhelming numbers, a tactic as old as mankind. When they were done, they usually pulled an Amaris and left little of value behind. That tells me they intended to destroy, rather then conquer. When Amaris was rebuffed by each House Lord and Kerensky, he knew he couldn't win, and started to destroy things.
Either WoB started with the idea they couldn't win, or quickly after they started, they were made aware that they couldn't win. Eitherway, they apparently intended to push mankind into the dark pit fortold by Blake, so they could then lead them out in their own image.
So, what crucial information do you lack?
Paul
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 02-Sep-2002 19:32 Post subject: RE: Spoilers on the WoB Jihad... |
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Again, the answer of their using nukes to take world after world doesn't answer any of my questions. All that tells me is that someone wanted an easy way around the main problems and an even simpler way to propell things toward the MWDA setting.
So NONE of this answers my original questions. All this does is open the door to allow anyone to use the nuke option to remove a problem and thus not have to come up with a logical or reasonable idea for dealing with the problem.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Paul
Capellan Confederation
Sang-wei
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 02-Sep-2002 20:13 Post subject: RE: Spoilers on the WoB Jihad... |
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...???...
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Again, the answer of their using nukes to take world after world doesn't answer any of my questions. All that tells me is that someone wanted an easy way around the main problems and an even simpler way to propell things toward the MWDA setting.
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Your logic baffles me.
Your problem is that you don't like that they used nukes etc? What, are you a Clanner now or something? The only thing that you consider realistic is good ol' 1 on 1 combat?
The Jihad has likely been in the works for years now. Almost certainly, TPTB intended to to cause massive and vast amounts of destruction, even back then.
The WoB wasn't out to take worlds, but to destroy them. Just read the Outreach bit again. Obviously, the WoB left after having completed it's destructive work.
And as the Succesion Wars have proven in the storyline, destroying something, esspecially with the help of WoMD, is a lot easier then conquering.
So, what is your problem? That you don't like that WoB destroyed so much? That they nukes out of the closet after they hadn't been used in a few centuries? What?
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So NONE of this answers my original questions. All this does is open the door to allow anyone to use the nuke option to remove a problem and thus not have to come up with a logical or reasonable idea for dealing with the problem.
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Ah, and nukes aren't a logical solution? Nukes are unrealistic?
Like you've stated countless times, compared to the rest of the IS, the WoB military forces were probably small. I'm betting myself they've managed to at least double their numbers since Terra (if not more), and with the aid of mercs, you can have a sizeable force.
Still, what good military commander would not use every option available to him to ensure he reaches his goals? Obviously, the WoB had little to no moral quals about using NBC weaponry and orbital bombardment, so why shouldn't they use it? The Ares Conventions? Concerns that they might damage or destroy technology, industry, or civilians? Hell, that was their GOAL.
The WoB dealt with the problem in a logical and reasonable way. Maximum brute force. Brute force has been applied countless times in real and btech history. They haven't been more ruthless about it then each House has in the Succession Wars.
So again, please explain in more detail what your questions are. What problems you have, other then not liking it.
I'm a bit stumped.
Paul
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 02-Sep-2002 20:36 Post subject: RE: Spoilers on the WoB Jihad... |
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If I recall correctly the last time nukes were brought up to be used against the Jaguars it was shot down as NOT being BT...but now all of a sudden they can be used and we are suppose to expect it and believe it to be a logical choice...
Sorry but this is hog wash.
The problems I have are the cost of the men, the mechs, the training, the logistical part of the operation, the covert ops to hide all of this and the cost of building a fleet and training the crews as well as building a fleet to transport this military that WoB has to even get to any of the planets to fight...or nuke as the case goes....and as Peter so nicely pointed out in the thread about Real Aerotech Info about nukes being something that cost a lot and take up a lot of reasources one has to wonder where the WoB has found time for all of this and none of the other Intell groups caught on...sorry but to me this is all bunk and nothing more then the push to the MWDA timeline.
So there you go Paul, my reasons as to why this is hog wash and why I don't believe it.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Alexander
Heavy Horse Merc Brigade
Commanding Officer
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: Canada
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| Posted: 02-Sep-2002 22:15 Post subject: RE: Spoilers on the WoB Jihad... |
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My question is, and it may seem like I haven't been paying attention to the timeline (which, to be honest, I haven't really,) is, what happened to all the nukes on earth. And all the ones from the Succession wars? Did they just up and leave, or were they still in storage available for some madman to use, like, say, the WoB?
Alexander (Just trying to clarify some details.)
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War is God's way of teaching geography.
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Commanding Officer, North West Armoured Cavalry
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Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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| Posted: 03-Sep-2002 16:34 Post subject: RE: Spoilers on the WoB Jihad... |
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Don't try and confuse anyone with the facts Alexander... 
I repeat one of my fav quotes:
"He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."
Why is the WoB using nukes ok, while it wasn't on the Jags? Simple...everyone else doesn't work that way anymore...
Just as Hanse reintroed total war to the Sphere, and Vic and company reintroed it to the Clans, the WoB has now reintroed TRUE Total War to EVERYONE...
Let me put it this way...if the US, or Britain or France used nukes on say Afghanistan or Iraq, the whole world, including our own people, would be up in arms (if we survived long enough to do so) because "we're the good guys, and we don't do that."...
But if Iraq or the Al Queda (sp?) used them, most people would just shrug and say that they expected them to use them, if they had them...
Does this comparison make what you're complaining about any easier to swallow, Karagin?
Ruger
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 03-Sep-2002 16:57 Post subject: RE: Spoilers on the WoB Jihad... |
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Nope sorry, all this does is reniforce the point that to get the storyline to point that the next step is MWDA...so once again NOTHING I raised as to why that can't pull of the Jihad was answered by this spolier...all it did was show that it's easier to use the old standard fall back, in this case a weak and seldom used item in the BT universe, and thus not half to worry about things line cost and explain all the little details.
So nope this doesn't even come close to answering my questions.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Chunga
Federated Suns
Private, First Class
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
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| Posted: 04-Sep-2002 15:06 Post subject: RE: Spoilers on the WoB Jihad... |
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Going back in this thread, I don't see any questions.
Karagin, what are your questions?
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 04-Sep-2002 15:16 Post subject: RE: Spoilers on the WoB Jihad... |
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Where is the WOB getting the money to buy all of the mechs, vehicles, warships and other items needed to have an army that is capiable of taking on the House Armies.
Where is WoB getting the manpower to flesh out this massive army...
How could they hide this from everyone...
And finial how are they transporting all of this around given their lack of transport vessels...
And before anyone tells me that they have Terra thus they can do all this, PLEASE apply some logic to this and look at the COST ISSUES as well as the need for a transport and other background items like supply lines and other logistical areas...then answers the questions.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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