| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Rarich
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 991
Location: United States
|
 Posted: 06-Nov-2003 05:13 Post subject: Why?! Why did Victor.... |
  |
|
I figure everyone has read endgame.
Why the @#$%%^&^&*did Victor create a bigger problem by handing over Katherine to Vlad?!
Think about it, the Wolves will be able to breed a bunch of good little warrior clones with the Steiner_ Davion Geneseed. A future nightmare just like the Davion-Kurita bastard in the hands of Theodore.
This does not even consider the immediate effect of giving the clans a master schemer to study and learn all the Innersphere politics the easy way.
I think Victor can now be blamed for the final fall of what remains in another generation or so. I wish he had either blown his brains out for unfulfilled love with Omi, or capped his sister immediately upon his suspicion of her use of assasins. Heck I could forgive most of the rest, if he had just capped his sister when he had her right there in front of him after retaking New Avalon.
As it is Victor is really no better than the his young brother, Peter during assumption of risk.
I am glad he handed things off to Yvonne, and the older and wiser Peter.
Any other points of veiw?
_________________
Duct tape is like the force. It has a light side & a dark side, and strings also lie under it all.
Life is a sexually transmitted terminal disease.
|
|
| Back to top |
 
|
Sir Henry
Team Bansai
Senior Tech Specialist
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4899
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 06-Nov-2003 07:25 Post subject: RE: Why?! Why did Victor.... |
|
|
Katherine needs a lesson in humility. What better place to give one?
_________________
Sir Henry
A Dragon in the disguise of a bunny, is still a Dragon.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
|
| Posted: 06-Nov-2003 10:03 Post subject: RE: Why?! Why did Victor.... |
|
|
It's not about personal humility, it's about safety for the Inner Sphere. Victor happily risks uncounted lives to save himself from doing the hard thing. And that's after fighting the most destructive civil war ever seen in the BT universe? 
_________________
A tree fall in the forest, and no one is around, and it hits a mime. Does anyone care?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Steelfang
3rd Bn, The Winchester Rifles
Major
Joined: 18-Sep-2003 00:00
Posts: 100
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 06-Nov-2003 12:17 Post subject: RE: Why?! Why did Victor.... |
|
|
She didn't need a lesson in humility, the Ice B$tch needed a MagShot Gauss Slug to the head. The damned wonks on the writing staff were being too damned PC when they chose that ending. Traitors deserve nothing less than the Gallow's Pole.
_________________
You have to question the sanity of anyone who claims that history is filled with honor and moral deeds. either the man is a lunatic or too stupid to understand what historians throughout the ages have been trying to say.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
-Mud
ex-Jade Falcon
Bounty Hunter
Joined: 04-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1082
|
| Posted: 06-Nov-2003 13:43 Post subject: RE: Why?! Why did Victor.... |
|
|
| The answer is pretty simple really: ever since Tukayyid the entire BT plotline has been on a collision course with disaster. The reason is pretty simple really; for several years there they were advancing the universe pretty much in real time. For every year that passed in the real world, a year passed in Btech, and usually things changed dramatically each year. Eventually, they simply ran out of good ideas, or at least didn't have enough time to do any proper editing of what they did come up with. Combine that with mostly incompetent writers, and you have a recipe for a storyline that has gone completely out of control. No wonder Wizkids decided to pretty much scrap the whole thing. From 3058 onwards, the whole premise was so unbelievable as to be unsalvagable. The last good thing they probably did was the introduction of the Chaos March (the possibilities of which were never truly fulfilled). Sorry to go so far off the original topic of the thread, but in my opinion "current events" in classic btech are simply not worth discussing or analyzing; they are simply too rediculous.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Sir Henry
Team Bansai
Senior Tech Specialist
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4899
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 06-Nov-2003 13:51 Post subject: RE: Why?! Why did Victor.... |
|
|
You can learn anything if your dead. You can't teach them anything if they are dead. Pain and suffering is something else she needs to learn... 
_________________
Sir Henry
A Dragon in the disguise of a bunny, is still a Dragon.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Paul
Capellan Confederation
Sang-wei
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 255
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 06-Nov-2003 13:59 Post subject: RE: Why?! Why did Victor.... |
|
|
Quote:
|
On 2003-11-06 05:13, Rarich wrote:
Think about it, the Wolves will be able to breed a bunch of good little warrior clones with the Steiner_ Davion Geneseed. A future nightmare just like the Davion-Kurita bastard in the hands of Theodore.
|
|
?
They won't use Katherine's genes until she becomes a Warrior, an unlikely proposition.
That said, I thought neither the Davions nor Steiners were known for their exceptional MW skills?
Then again, having a Luck of the Davion(3) Trait as a part of your Clan Wolf affilition ought to go a long way. No longer will your pilots die when your Mech gets headcapped by a GR!
Quote:
|
This does not even consider the immediate effect of giving the clans a master schemer to study and learn all the Innersphere politics the easy way.
|
|
You got a point there, and thats Vlad's most immediate non-recreational use of her. Of course, how he'd sell copying Ulric by listening to a non-Warrior Spheriod advisor to his pack, I don't know. He could sell any departures in policies as insight, while using " pillowtalk sessions" to give Katherine a chance to talk.
Regardlessly, Victor's move does have a bit of merit. Without being a Warrior, Katherine is of very limited use to Vlad. Without a Bloodname (0% chance at one) the use is even less.
Which leaves a couple of good ideas for Vlad about how the IS will react he'd otherwise not have. He'll scheme (see CHH-CGB " war") but said schemes are restricted to military matters. Kat's speciality is non-combat scheming. Keep her out of a Clan Hall or a SL conference or the press and she's mostly impotent.
Quote:
|
I am glad he handed things off to Yvonne, and the older and wiser Peter.
|
|
Hear hear. Yvonne has significant potential, I think.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 06-Nov-2003 23:09 Post subject: RE: Why?! Why did Victor.... |
|
|
Bingo. I'm glad someone else sees that the plotline sucks.
You are wrong on one account, though: it was not (completely) Wizkids decision to destroy the universe and start from scratch. If CBT sources are to be believed, the current timeline was largely decided upon before FASA went under. I personally think Bryan Nystul and Bill Randalls, along with their goons, are the people to blame.
The story after 3058, or even Tukayid, could do with a good bit of editing and revision.
Going back to the original topic: why is Victor so stupid? The actions are so bad as to be solely blamed on poor story writing. IMO, its not worth trying to justify within the context of the story.
[ This Message was edited by: Gangrene on 2003-11-07 19:07 ]
_________________
Gangrene
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Paul
Capellan Confederation
Sang-wei
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 255
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 07-Nov-2003 00:31 Post subject: RE: Why?! Why did Victor.... |
|
|
Wow. Glad to see you've warmed to the story. Always nice to see some kind words.
Quote:
|
On 2003-11-06 23:09, Gangrene wrote:
If CBT sources are to be believed, the current timeline was largely decided upon before FASA went under.
|
|
Yep. The first clues of the Jihad show up well before FASA closes their doors. It is my understanding that the scale changed a bit.
Paul
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Slythis
Federated Suns
Colonel
Joined: 09-Aug-2002 00:00
Posts: 712
|
| Posted: 07-Nov-2003 11:55 Post subject: RE: Why?! Why did Victor.... |
|
|
Quote:
|
On 2003-11-07 00:31, Paul wrote:
Yep. The first clues of the Jihad show up well before FASA closes their doors. It is my understanding that the scale changed a bit.
Paul
|
|
Lets see here, the fall of terra was written almost a decade ago in Malicious intent, as well as Katherine's capture by the wolves.
_________________
"It is pleasant, when the winds are high and the seas are rough to watch the stuggles of another from the shore."
|
|
| Back to top |
|
-Mud
ex-Jade Falcon
Bounty Hunter
Joined: 04-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1082
|
| Posted: 07-Nov-2003 14:03 Post subject: RE: Why?! Why did Victor.... |
|
|
| Especially when you consider that Victor was taught the trade by two of the cleverest people in Btech history, Hanse Davion and Katrina Steiner. Of course, so was Katherine...
|
|
| Back to top |
|
-Mud
ex-Jade Falcon
Bounty Hunter
Joined: 04-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1082
|
| Posted: 07-Nov-2003 14:08 Post subject: RE: Why?! Why did Victor.... |
|
|
I really don't think a bunch of Steiner brats in Clan Wolf is really very likely. First of all, in order to be considered for inclusion in the gene pool you have to be part of a Bloodname house. Second, you actually have to win a Bloodname, and finally, you have to distinguish yourself in battle. I don't think Katherine meets even one of those criteria. 
Of course, if she were to bear Vlad Ward a child....
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 07-Nov-2003 19:18 Post subject: RE: Why?! Why did Victor.... |
|
|
Quote:
|
On 2003-11-07 00:31, Paul wrote:
Wow. Glad to see you've warmed to the story. Always nice to see some kind words.
|
|
You don't have to read my posts.
Quote:
|
Yep. The first clues of the Jihad show up well before FASA closes their doors. It is my understanding that the scale changed a bit.
|
|
I'm starting to think that's a bunch of junk. The "clues" were in no way indicative of a mass threat against the IS and Clans and could have been interpreted a mutlitude of ways. The story could have been witten that Katherine Steiner used the WoB presence on Terra to justify occupying it, and that too would have been hinted at given the nature of the clues.
_________________
Gangrene
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Paul
Capellan Confederation
Sang-wei
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 255
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 07-Nov-2003 22:59 Post subject: RE: Why?! Why did Victor.... |
|
|
Quote:
|
On 2003-11-07 19:18, Gangrene wrote:
You don't have to read my posts.
|
|
If it bothered me too much, I wouldn't.
I think you're being too negative, ut that's your perogative, and I don't think it's my place to try and somehow convert your feelings, even if I thought I could.
Quote:
|
I'm starting to think that's a bunch of junk. The "clues" were in no way indicative of a mass threat against the IS and Clans and could have been interpreted a mutlitude of ways. The story could have been witten that Katherine Steiner used the WoB presence on Terra to justify occupying it, and that too would have been hinted at given the nature of the clues.
|
|
The fact that clues can be interpretted in several different ways hardly makes them faulty. Just makes them more realistic and plausible. If you're getting clues that can only be interpretted in 1 way, your Intel organization is either clairvoyant, or you're being set up for an ambush.
There's also an OOC reason for keeping clues open to multiple interpretations. That way you retain some flexibility, should you require it.
The trick with the Jihad clearly is that no nations estimated that WoB would be a threat on such a level. If they did, they would have responded. Problem is that WoB has the best Intel organization in known space working for them, and that the major nations thought they either had them pegged (FWL, CC) or were far too busy with various wars (FC, DC).
That said, they did start looking much harder towards 3067.
All that will likely still not make you like the storyline any better. That's your personal opinion.
I'm only debating the issue whether the jihad had been in the works before FASA closed, as well as the plausibility of the Jihad (or lack thereof).
Paul
|
|
| Back to top |
|
AlexxKnight
Federated Suns
Colonel
Joined: 11-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 787
|
| Posted: 09-Nov-2003 10:37 Post subject: RE: Why?! Why did Victor.... |
|
|
Quote:
|
Of course, if she were to bear Vlad Ward a child....
|
|
Which given Vlad's hatred of Freeborns, would still make it unlikely that their child would enter Warrior training let alone have the chance of winning a Bloodname.
_________________
Alexx Knight, Lance Sgt.
Command Company, Crimson Janissaries
-----------------------------------------------------
The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. . . And you
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
