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Havoc~Ronin
Federated Suns
Major
Joined: 13-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 427
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 Posted: 26-Nov-2003 12:30 Post subject: The Buldog vs The Rommel/Patton |
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Here are two questions for all those armored lovers.
1.) If you had to decide between a lance of Bulldogs or a lance of Rommels/Pattons, which would you choose? Parameters are the lance must contain all the same vehicles, but different variants are allowed.
2.) Does this choice remain the same if you remove two tanks and add a light or medium mech of your choice?
A curious mind wants to know.......
_________________
"Ours is not to question why, ours is just to do...."
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Raven!
Clan Snow Raven
Galaxy Commander
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1326
Location: United States
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| Posted: 26-Nov-2003 12:57 Post subject: RE: The Buldog vs The Rommel/Patton |
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Depends. If this is city fighting i'll take the bulldogs for the infantry. Even if I can take a mech (which would be a Panther or Commando btw).
Out in the open the Rommel/Patton might be the better choice.
Raven, who uses armor, infantry, conventional aircraft, and BattleMechs together all the time!
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-Mud
ex-Jade Falcon
Bounty Hunter
Joined: 04-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1082
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| Posted: 26-Nov-2003 14:49 Post subject: RE: The Buldog vs The Rommel/Patton |
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| Personally, give me a platoon of Po's.
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AWAD
Draconis Combine
Chu-sa
Joined: 06-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 766
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| Posted: 27-Nov-2003 23:16 Post subject: RE: The Buldog vs The Rommel/Patton |
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On 2003-11-26 12:30, Havoc~Ronin wrote:
Here are two questions for all those armored lovers.
1.) If you had to decide between a lance of Bulldogs or a lance of Rommels/Pattons, which would you choose? Parameters are the lance must contain all the same vehicles, but different variants are allowed.
2.) Does this choice remain the same if you remove two tanks and add a light or medium mech of your choice?
A curious mind wants to know.......
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All Bulldogs,
Range is the same as the R/P less the LRM 5 they carry. Those pair of SRM 4s make them very tought against vehicles, also can rip wounded mechs. MGs are good for spite and infantry killing. Yes the 20 pts armor is a little weak, but they are vehicles and anything beyond 30-35 is a waste, become locked or pin boxes to quickly.
Also the cost for 4 BullDogs is whay less, so I bet I get 8 Bulldogs vs 4 R/P.
AS for addijng a light or medium of my choice, then the I would have a pair Bulldogs supported by a Griffin, or a Kinatro.
AWAD- Cost is one factor that should always be remembered.
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 28-Nov-2003 00:28 Post subject: RE: The Buldog vs The Rommel/Patton |
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1: Depends on my budget. I'll settle for Bulldogs if I can't afford the Gauss Rifle Rommel.
2: This choice is easier. I'll use as much money as possible on the mech, so it only gets Bulldogs as help. Might as well take a real bruiser mech, slow and tough with lots of guns. Hey, I'll take a Thunderbolt, that's a Lyran scout mech 
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A tree fall in the forest, and no one is around, and it hits a mime. Does anyone care?
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Havoc~Ronin
Federated Suns
Major
Joined: 13-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 427
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| Posted: 28-Nov-2003 14:52 Post subject: RE: The Buldog vs The Rommel/Patton |
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Thunderbolt? Isn,t that one of the original 3025 heavies that were removed from the revised edition? I think it used to be the mech before the Crusader in the heavy section.
And yes.....I am showing my age. I miss the mechs. Thank god I have the early versions of the box sets. 
_________________
"Ours is not to question why, ours is just to do...."
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Paul
Capellan Confederation
Sang-wei
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 255
Location: United States
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| Posted: 28-Nov-2003 21:51 Post subject: RE: The Buldog vs The Rommel/Patton |
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Quote:
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On 2003-11-26 12:30, Havoc~Ronin wrote:
1.) If you had to decide between a lance of Bulldogs or a lance of Rommels/Pattons, which would you choose? Parameters are the lance must contain all the same vehicles, but different variants are allowed.
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Initially I thought this was a trick question. Rommel/Pattons hands down. Better armor, equal firepower.
Then I sat down.
In a lance on lance engagement as you suggest above, things should actually be pretty interesting.
The Rommel will plow through a Bulldog easy. 2 hits on the same location, and it's gone.
However, the Bulldog can hit it for 6 hexes before the AC20 even comes in to play. In decently open terrain, the Bulldog lance could inflict a serious toll on the Rommels. And when they do get close, the SRMs can be all too lethal against tanks.
The Patton can't be outranged, while it does some serious damage at range. LRM5 + AC10 vs. LL. Combine this with nearly double the Bulldog's armor on all locations, and the Patton will defeat a stock Bulldog 9 times out of 10.
Things get muddier when you consider the LRM and AC/2 variants of the Bulldog. Those would be even greater problems for a Rommel, while a Patton would have to break a sweat and use terrain to sneak in to range.
All in all, I'd go with Pattons. The much heavier armor and the broad range of utility sways me there. The MGs on the Bulldog are nice to hold the terrain you capture, but the SL and flamer do well there as well.
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2.) Does this choice remain the same if you remove two tanks and add a light or medium mech of your choice?
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Not really.
Rommels and Pattons actually do better against Mechs than Bulldogs. The equality between the 3 designs exists mostly because the SRMs of the Bulldog really level the playing field between the tanks, while it wouldn't contribute as much when facing Mechs.
Conversely, the Bulldog tends to do well at range compared to the other tanks, you'd usually add a light or Medium when range is a weakness on one design or the other.
So, my vote goes to Pattons. With a significant but not overwhelming margin. If you've got to go with Bulldogs, I wouldn't be too upset about it.
Heck, in campaigns having an ICE would be a boon.
Paul
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Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2039
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| Posted: 28-Nov-2003 22:48 Post subject: RE: The Buldog vs The Rommel/Patton |
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If I had to choose between the three, I'd go with the gauss rifle version of the Rommel...
But overall, I think my fav tracked tank is the Myrmidon...40 tons, 5/8 speed, 144 pts of armor and armed with a PPC and a SRM-6...then the Manticore (tech 1 only)...and finally, the Rommel (gauss version)...
Ruger
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Paul
Capellan Confederation
Sang-wei
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 255
Location: United States
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| Posted: 29-Nov-2003 10:10 Post subject: RE: The Buldog vs The Rommel/Patton |
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On 2003-11-28 22:48, Ruger wrote:
If I had to choose between the three, I'd go with the gauss rifle version of the Rommel...
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Typical munchkin, won't consider 3025 only. ;p
Pesky Lyrans.
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But overall, I think my fav tracked tank is the Myrmidon...
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Myrmidons rule. I love to deploy them in as large a number as I can.
Great in campaigns too. Soooo much firepower, yet still 'just' a light tank.
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then the Manticore (tech 1 only)...
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The Manticore's a pretty good all-purpose device. The only thing it cant do is mess with assault tanks (although its missile weapons help). Crowd control is also minimal.
Paul
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Discord
Federated Suns
Sergeant-Major
Joined: 22-Jul-2003 00:00
Posts: 106
Location: United States
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| Posted: 29-Nov-2003 15:11 Post subject: RE: The Buldog vs The Rommel/Patton |
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Gimme a good ol' 3025 book Patton anyday. I love 'em. The book Rommel would be my second choice. I got a refresher last nite on how nasty they are. But, my prefered tank wasn't an option. The Schrek. 3 peeps 'll chew ya up in open terrain.
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Stand to your glasses steady, and drink to your comrade's eyes: Here's a cup to the dead already, and hurrah for the next one that dies.
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AWAD
Draconis Combine
Chu-sa
Joined: 06-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 766
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| Posted: 29-Nov-2003 19:38 Post subject: RE: The Buldog vs The Rommel/Patton |
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On 2003-11-29 15:11, Discord wrote:
Gimme a good ol' 3025 book Patton anyday. I love 'em. The book Rommel would be my second choice. I got a refresher last nite on how nasty they are. But, my prefered tank wasn't an option. The Schrek. 3 peeps 'll chew ya up in open terrain.
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A big time truism. Only thing is Schrecks get called out first and whacked. You can do some traps and tricks, but trust me, no player ignores 3 PPCs on one platform.
The updated Partisans can really hurt. But for long range pillboxes no matter the terrain.... Sturmfurher. 2 LRM 20s and a ton or armor. Park it and fire. It can actually ignore mechs for some time and shoot at other mechs.
AWAD- Hetzer, disposable AC/20 platform
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Stinger
The Knights of Chaos
General
Joined: 30-Apr-2002 00:00
Posts: 1833
Location: United States
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| Posted: 29-Nov-2003 20:16 Post subject: RE: The Buldog vs The Rommel/Patton |
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The Alacorn. I like coupling that with a Shriek, Demolisher and the one of several other designs. Makes for a very ugly surprise.
_________________
Stinger
If it's "creepy" to use the Internet, military satellites, and robot aircraft to find a house full of gorgeous young models so I can drop in on them unexpected, then FINE, I'm "creepy". Howard Wolowitz. BBT.
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-Mud
ex-Jade Falcon
Bounty Hunter
Joined: 04-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1082
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| Posted: 30-Nov-2003 15:59 Post subject: RE: The Buldog vs The Rommel/Patton |
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| Manticore's are uneconomical though; the Fusion engine isn't really worth the results you get. Give me two Pos for the price.
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