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Gunslinger Patch
Royal Black Watch Regiment
Major
Joined: 04-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 1611
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 Posted: 12-Dec-2003 14:17 Post subject: RE: Assaualt Mechs in Merc Units |
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I voted yes. But not in large or even medium numbers. Just one here and there in a battalion. For a regiment of mercs I could see an assault lance or even a company, but most of their assault mechs would be in that company.
One assault mech I could be being a regular as a merc assault mech is the Awesome, built by House Marik. They would be for sale on the open market and with their speed and no need for ammo, I'd think a merc commander would like to have one or two in his battalion.
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"Those who beat their guns into plows will plow for those with guns..." -Thomas Jefferson
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Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2039
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| Posted: 13-Dec-2003 10:59 Post subject: RE: Assaualt Mechs in Merc Units |
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Yes...mercs use whatever they can get their hands on...
Ruger
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Mordel
Mordel.Net
Administrator
Joined: 03-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 6061
Location: United States
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| Posted: 13-Dec-2003 12:21 Post subject: RE: Assaualt Mechs in Merc Units |
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True, but how often do they get their hands on assault mechs? These beasties are very coveted and almost never left behind. In combat you go out in a blaze of glory with practically nothing left. So save for the occassional head shot kill, there shouldn't be much salvageable from an assault 'mech. Heck, the only time I played a 'merc company with a friend of mine doing a campaign, I never had an assault. A couple heavies, but mostly lights and mediums. EVery scenario we ran resulted in very few repairable units, let alone assaults.
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Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2039
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| Posted: 13-Dec-2003 13:36 Post subject: RE: Assaualt Mechs in Merc Units |
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Well...part of it depends on the faction you're fighting against.... 
And I never said they would/should have many...I just said they'd use whatever they could get their hands on... 
Ruger
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AWAD
Draconis Combine
Chu-sa
Joined: 06-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 766
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| Posted: 13-Dec-2003 14:22 Post subject: RE: Assaualt Mechs in Merc Units |
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On 2003-12-13 12:21, Mordel wrote:
True, but how often do they get their hands on assault mechs? These beasties are very coveted and almost never left behind. In combat you go out in a blaze of glory with practically nothing left. So save for the occassional head shot kill, there shouldn't be much salvageable from an assault 'mech. Heck, the only time I played a 'merc company with a friend of mine doing a campaign, I never had an assault. A couple heavies, but mostly lights and mediums. EVery scenario we ran resulted in very few repairable units, let alone assaults.
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A few people have made some decent points, Zeus; Bmaster could be viable in a Merc Unit. They are adaptable and have 4/6 movement, which allows for some movement.
Mordell makes the point most assaults gotten are slagged, unless you get lucky to pull off the trap. But this means the same will happen to you. Once committed it is hard to pull out the Assault.
But think of another point..... Do you want your employer to think you are more powerful then you are? That one assault Mech in lets say a company may lead them to believe you can crack any nut...... including yours. How many times are Mercs left out to dry? Also it becomes a focal point, which can be good if you have the right kind of unit and personnel otherwise it is a hindrance.
On the other side an Assault may make enemies break easy and fast, or conversely the local commander panics and calls all reinforcements. So now you have serious resistance. Yeah your fellow mercs or house may have it easier as you slug it away.
The other point is maintenance. Remember that n new Btech it seems techs are a dime a dozen, but in old school, techs were gold. If you loot in Max Tech, Assault Mechs are a fortune in support points to keep running. So I can get rid of the assault, get a heavy,, maybe another tech, and loads or repair gear to keep my unit in top notch shape.
Just like artillery assets or aerospace, just because you got your grubby hands on it does not mean you have to add it into your arsenal. Thinks of commercial companies, if you expand into everything and large quick, usually you suck at all of them. (Yes some exceptions but the business world is littered with the 100 companies for on GE or United Technologies). May be better to sell. This way you really know your strength and weaknesses and do not pin your hopes on single point you can carry out a mission, only to see it collapse, like your unit.
AWAD- Not all Mercs are assault or attack units, some excel at riot, or defense, or cadre
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-Mud
ex-Jade Falcon
Bounty Hunter
Joined: 04-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1082
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| Posted: 17-Dec-2003 00:11 Post subject: RE: Assaualt Mechs in Merc Units |
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| Assault 'mechs would be VERY VERY rare in mercenary units, particularly smaller units. I think a regimental sized unit might feasibly sport an assault lance or two, but a company or battalion sized unit simply cannot afford to field such ultra-specialized 'mechs. Additionally, raiding is the forte of most mercenary units, and assault designs are pathetic for raiding.
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-Mud
ex-Jade Falcon
Bounty Hunter
Joined: 04-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1082
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| Posted: 17-Dec-2003 00:13 Post subject: RE: Assaualt Mechs in Merc Units |
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| Awesome? Speed? What speed? Awesomes only do a whopping 3/5. Sure, the 3050 design does 4/6, but it needs an XL engine to do it, and only the richest mercenaries are going to be able to afford XL engines. Also, the fragility of XL units is a hinderence to mercenary units. Mercenaries need solid, dependable designs that don't break down on you.
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Sir Henry
Team Bansai
Senior Tech Specialist
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4899
Location: United States
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| Posted: 17-Dec-2003 13:13 Post subject: RE: Assaualt Mechs in Merc Units |
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If they get it through Salvage, they use the Hell out of it....
For spare parts....
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Sir Henry
A Dragon in the disguise of a bunny, is still a Dragon.
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Kiris65
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 17-Dec-2003 00:00
Posts: 371
Location: Panama
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| Posted: 09-Jan-2004 11:46 Post subject: RE: Assaualt Mechs in Merc Units |
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the post and arguments are old, but I vote yes.
I don't think the mercenary group would outright go purchase an Assault mech, but battlefield salvage or new pilots bringing their own will most definetely be welcomed.
I don't think a mercenary commander in their right set of mind will say "no" to an Atlas salvaged from the battlefield or turn back a mech jock because he drives one.
A mercenary group should be flexible enough to accept any job, and the assault mech sometimes is needed for those jobs that are just too big for a medium or a heavy.
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Anata no gosenzo sama ni kao o awase rare masuka! - (Get ready to meet your ashamed ancestors!)
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Lt WolfCloud
Draconis Combine
Heishi
Joined: 19-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 19
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| Posted: 09-Jan-2004 23:58 Post subject: RE: Assaualt Mechs in Merc Units |
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No
Reason-Per weight of a Assualt will not get the same results as Heavies or mediums. The mercs might get one but normaly they would sell it to get parts for most common mechs.
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-Mud
ex-Jade Falcon
Bounty Hunter
Joined: 04-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1082
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| Posted: 10-Jan-2004 02:36 Post subject: RE: Assaualt Mechs in Merc Units |
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A couple of points:
1) The availibility of assault 'mech parts to mercenary units, or parts for any specific model for that matter, will vary greatly by employer. A mercenary unit in the service of the Lyran Commonwealth will have no difficulty finding parts for a Zeus or an Atlas, but might have significant difficulties keeping their light 'mechs adequately supplied.
2) Mercenary units have limited Dropship space; you can fit more firepower into the same cargo capacity using bigger 'mechs.
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Slythis
Federated Suns
Colonel
Joined: 09-Aug-2002 00:00
Posts: 712
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| Posted: 10-Jan-2004 16:24 Post subject: RE: Assaualt Mechs in Merc Units |
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Quote:
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On 2004-01-10 02:36, -Mud wrote:
A couple of points:
1) The availibility of assault 'mech parts to mercenary units, or parts for any specific model for that matter, will vary greatly by employer. A mercenary unit in the service of the Lyran Commonwealth will have no difficulty finding parts for a Zeus or an Atlas, but might have significant difficulties keeping their light 'mechs adequately supplied.
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Which is why in a recent 3025 Mechwarrior campain I fielded 2 Companies of mostly assault mechs, under Lyran employ it's a lot easier to keep them in good repair... which is why I prefer to work with the Davions or Kurita.
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Old Dog
Capellan Confederation
Sang-wei
Joined: 24-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 299
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| Posted: 26-Jan-2004 19:18 Post subject: RE: Assaualt Mechs in Merc Units |
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Well, I tend to stick with teh Ancient Number of Old, where the breakdown was roughly 25% light mechs, 50% Medium, 20% Heavy, and 5% Assault. The biggest and baddest generally had short production runs and were so important and valuable that if you *lost* one, you were largely ruined. When an assault strode out anywhere but Steiner space, you poo'd your pants, because you knew something BIG was up.
On top of that, with mercs having serious budget issues, a normal Merc company will likely (Not always, but likely) not have one. Those that do likely have a 'Sucky' one that they got cheap. Bob's BladderBlasters don't get to trot out an Atlas or an Awsome ... they get to use a Charger and claim to have 'An Assault Lance', or maybe an original flavored Banshee. An actual *good* design, like a Stalker, is likely to be sold to a larger Merc unit, so that a more versitile design can be in the mercs.
Now, keep in mind, here, that I still think of teh Company as the largest battlefield unit you're likely to see. Mercs, in my mind, rarely get larger, just due to logistics, but top off at a single Batallion if super lucky. (Er. Not counting the MegaUnits, like teh Dragoons, Highlanders, etc) A group larger than a Battallion is pretty much going to be locked down by a House and will have so much to transport (Support teams, wives, kids, ammo, fuel, etc) that they just can't operate as true mercenaries any more.
The company is simple the best merc size, and, in a company, an Assault Mech is simply an investment that few are willing to make.
Go 'head, give it a try. Take the usual 25 million C-bill value or a Merc company, and see if you can take a full dozen Mechs, topped with an Assault. Yeah, you could take 11 Stingers and an Atlas, but that'd be a tad silly.  A nice, balanced Merc Company just doesn't need one, but they make for fun flavor every so often.
-- Old Dog, into the numbers thing.
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-Mud
ex-Jade Falcon
Bounty Hunter
Joined: 04-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1082
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| Posted: 28-Jan-2004 19:09 Post subject: RE: Assaualt Mechs in Merc Units |
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| One factor which has not been discussed here is speed. Mercenary units have to be able to undertake a lot of different types of mission, many of which involve fast strikes into enemy territory. For a small mercenary unit, fielding an Atlas or a Stalker may be uneconomical not because of the sheer cost involved, but because the 'mech simply cannot be fielded in the majority of the missions undertaken by the unit. A Zeus or a Battlemaster will not suffer from this deficiency nearly as much.
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Rarich
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 991
Location: United States
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| Posted: 29-Jan-2004 00:55 Post subject: RE: Assaualt Mechs in Merc Units |
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Quote:
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On 2004-01-26 19:18, Old Dog wrote:
Well, I tend to stick with teh Ancient Number of Old, where the breakdown was roughly 25% light mechs, 50% Medium, 20% Heavy, and 5% Assault. When an assault strode out anywhere but Steiner space, you poo'd your pants, because you knew something BIG was up.
On top of that, with mercs having serious budget issues, a normal Merc company will likely (Not always, but likely) not have one. Those that do likely have a 'Sucky' one that they got cheap. Bob's BladderBlasters don't get to trot out an Atlas or an Awsome ... they get to use a Charger and claim to have 'An Assault Lance', or maybe an original flavored Banshee. An actual *good* design, like a Stalker, is likely to be sold to a larger Merc unit, so that a more versitile design can be in the mercs.
Now, keep in mind, here, that I still think of teh Company as the largest battlefield unit you're likely to see. Mercs, in my mind, rarely get larger, just due to logistics, but top off at a single Batallion if super lucky. (Er. Not counting the MegaUnits, like teh Dragoons, Highlanders, etc) A group larger than a Battallion is pretty much going to be locked down by a House and will have so much to transport (Support teams, wives, kids, ammo, fuel, etc) that they just can't operate as true mercenaries any more.
The company is simple the best merc size, and, in a company, an Assault Mech is simply an investment that few are willing to make.
Go 'head, give it a try. Take the usual 25 million C-bill value or a Merc company, and see if you can take a full dozen Mechs, topped with an Assault. Yeah, you could take 11 Stingers and an Atlas, but that'd be a tad silly. A nice, balanced Merc Company just doesn't need one, but they make for fun flavor every so often.
-- Old Dog, into the numbers thing.
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25 million is the price of single mechs- not necessarily assault- if you are talking advanced tech. Then again a new unit would probably be a few warriors who owned their own vehicle with fillers for recruits purchased on the market.
Most mercs would be limited to what the Taurans, or Kressly works are producing, maybe some Marik mechs. the Fedsuns and Lyrans are busy rebuilding units from the civil war, and probably have tied up production for a while.
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