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DarkAdder
Clan Star Adder
Star Commander
Joined: 10-Jan-2004 00:00
Posts: 604
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 Posted: 09-Mar-2004 20:37 Post subject: OmniRaven |
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Okay, ive been flipping through my '67 TRO and Ive noticed something. All of the light mechs fielded by the Capellans are just retreads of the Raven design. The Anubis, Stiletto, and Sha Yu are all built around the Raven. Instead of reinventing the wheel, why didnt they just make the Raven into an omni and move on?
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Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
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js
Federated Suns
Sergeant-Major
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 125
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| Posted: 10-Mar-2004 02:32 Post subject: RE: OmniRaven |
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| Reusing a chassis is pretty common in BT. Check out how often the Griffin chassis got reused in some form or other. It's in just about everything that is a medium and isn't an omni.
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 10-Mar-2004 03:41 Post subject: RE: OmniRaven |
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Perhaps they're not able to build omnimechs? Or they think it's easier to do it the old way?
Omnimechs aren't really as hot as people claim they are. You need a huge stockpile of extra components if you want to use different configurations. And they cost more than standard mechs.
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A tree fall in the forest, and no one is around, and it hits a mime. Does anyone care?
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Raven!
Clan Snow Raven
Galaxy Commander
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1326
Location: United States
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| Posted: 10-Mar-2004 10:48 Post subject: RE: OmniRaven |
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This is one of the great unsolved questions of history my friend.
For the Raven, just by its very name, is a mech worthy of every respect and gift. It is a mech that must be taken seriously in all situations because its name inspires confidence, courage, and just downright spiffyness.
Of course, the producers are another story.
Raven!
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Havoc~Ronin
Federated Suns
Major
Joined: 13-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 427
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| Posted: 10-Mar-2004 15:47 Post subject: RE: OmniRaven |
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Ravens are just garbage pickers and like bright shiny objects to line their nests. They also drive people mad (according to Edgar Allan Poe).
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"Ours is not to question why, ours is just to do...."
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Jade_Dragon
8th Sword of Light
Sho-sho
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1325
Location: United States
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| Posted: 10-Mar-2004 15:52 Post subject: RE: OmniRaven |
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If you want to make a new light mech, us the Raven chasis, if you want a medium Griffin is the choice. Assault of course uses the Crockett, but what my friends is the chasis of choice for a heavy Mech?
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Stinger
The Knights of Chaos
General
Joined: 30-Apr-2002 00:00
Posts: 1833
Location: United States
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| Posted: 10-Mar-2004 18:53 Post subject: RE: OmniRaven |
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Atlas. Or Uhhh...Hmmm. Good question..
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Stinger
If it's "creepy" to use the Internet, military satellites, and robot aircraft to find a house full of gorgeous young models so I can drop in on them unexpected, then FINE, I'm "creepy". Howard Wolowitz. BBT.
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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| Posted: 10-Mar-2004 20:51 Post subject: RE: OmniRaven |
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Because that would make too much sense. The houses and clans shouldn't bother making non-omnis at all.
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Gangrene
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ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
Colonel
Joined: 18-Aug-2003 00:00
Posts: 2021
Location: United States
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| Posted: 10-Mar-2004 22:43 Post subject: RE: OmniRaven |
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Quote:
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On 2004-03-10 20:51, Gangrene wrote:
Because that would make too much sense. The houses and clans shouldn't bother making non-omnis at all.
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Umm, thats a load of crap. OmniMechs are very expensive, and as someone else pointed out, to be of true use you need huge stockpiles of extra weapons for use in reconfigs. This does just not make good military or economic sense. Would you rather have 1 mech or 2? Personally I'd rather have double the firepower on the field over double the cost and the ability to change weapons loads between battles.
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Colonel Ralgith t'Mayasara
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company 'Ralgith's Renegades'
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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| Posted: 10-Mar-2004 23:22 Post subject: RE: OmniRaven |
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Quote:
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On 2004-03-10 22:43, ralgith wrote:
Umm, thats a load of crap. OmniMechs are very expensive, and as someone else pointed out, to be of true use you need huge stockpiles of extra weapons for use in reconfigs. This does just not make good military or economic sense. Would you rather have 1 mech or 2? Personally I'd rather have double the firepower on the field over double the cost and the ability to change weapons loads between battles.
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You would not need huge stockpiles of equipment. The point is not to allow the mech access to every conceivable configuration it can have, but enough to make it fill multiple roles.
Your comparison of 1 mech vs 2 does not make sense from a logistics standpoint. There is always going to be a limitation on the number of units that can be in the field at any given time, so cheaper machines does not automatically mean superior numbers. It would be more cost effective in the long run to field units that can take on multiple roles than to try to make a force of set designs to fill all roles. If I can have only 36 mechs for a raiding operation, I want those 36 to be omnis.
The additional expense attributed to omni mechs is another great Fasa-ism that makes no sense. Interchangable parts combined with mass production lowers prices in the long run. Omnimechs should be cheaper to maintain and build en mass.
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Gangrene
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Blasty McNasty
Free Worlds League
Corporal
Joined: 06-Jan-2004 00:00
Posts: 65
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| Posted: 11-Mar-2004 00:02 Post subject: RE: OmniRaven |
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People, people, please! Enough with the bickering and the like. I personally believe that Omnimechs are ideal for front-line troops and not for second-liners for both their ability to be easily specialized for the situation, which second-liners do not need as they are generally tasked with defensive roles, and the fact that it is economically feasible for only these units to have them. Now that I have shared my omniscient wisdom, you may get back to whatever it was that you were doing.
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"And Blasty said: A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed. And all rejoiced." - The Word of Blasty, verse 22:2
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 11-Mar-2004 05:14 Post subject: RE: OmniRaven |
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The higher cost is probably from the high quality manufacturing and parts used. The omni components have to fit any kind of chassis, any day of the week, straight off the shelf. There's no time to calibrate lasers for different power output profiles, no time to set the mech's gyro for a different center of mass. It's all automatic. The savings in omni tech comes in reduced down time for repairs.
So make it clear in the RPG environment! Have people wait months for that Atlas hip actuator, when the omnimech is back on the field after an hour.
And the omni pilots should be veterans at the very least. Well, from an RPG perspective. It's not like they can be the best at every role if they haven't tried it in combat. So no sane commander will have greenies using his precious omnimechs.
IMO the omni concept was totally fouled up by FASA, at least as regards the clanners. They've built a lot of omnis, when they should have made do with one of each weight class. It's not much different from standard mechs in regards to specialization. You still have to flip through the books, looking for the mech you need.
BTW, who would really use a Daishi if he's got a Behemoth available?
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A tree fall in the forest, and no one is around, and it hits a mime. Does anyone care?
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Moonlapse Vertigo
Clan Goliath Scorpion
Star Captain
Joined: 02-Mar-2004 00:00
Posts: 207
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| Posted: 11-Mar-2004 11:32 Post subject: RE: OmniRaven |
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On 2004-03-11 05:14, Nightmare wrote:
IMO the omni concept was totally fouled up by FASA, at least as regards the clanners. They've built a lot of omnis, when they should have made do with one of each weight class. It's not much different from standard mechs in regards to specialization. You still have to flip through the books, looking for the mech you need.
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Yeah... omnis don't seem as "special" to me as they could be...
But I don't mind, having only a few mechs with many varients, while perhaps more realistic, would be boring.
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Slythis
Federated Suns
Colonel
Joined: 09-Aug-2002 00:00
Posts: 712
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| Posted: 11-Mar-2004 13:12 Post subject: RE: OmniRaven |
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Quote:
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On 2004-03-11 05:14, Nightmare wrote:
IMO the omni concept was totally fouled up by FASA, at least as regards the clanners. They've built a lot of omnis, when they should have made do with one of each weight class. It's not much different from standard mechs in regards to specialization. You still have to flip through the books, looking for the mech you need.
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That would hurt the sale of Minis, I personally like Minis and would like the company making them to continue. But thats just my opinion I could be wrong.
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-Mud
ex-Jade Falcon
Bounty Hunter
Joined: 04-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1082
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| Posted: 11-Mar-2004 15:53 Post subject: RE: OmniRaven |
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You need different omnimech chassis in order to allow for different armor and speeds; thus you need several chassis for each weight class.
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