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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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 Posted: 17-Oct-2004 19:30 Post subject: Melee Weapons Worth it or not? |
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This came up doing one the rare BT games over here in Mosul Iraq (LSA Diamondback the FOB that I am stationed at currently), are Melee weapons really all that usefull or are they a waste of time?
The discussion drew a draw and it really was an interesting topic since the folks supporting it said that it gave a player more options on their actions and allowed for close combat. While those against pointed out that mechs wouldn't realistly get that close nor would the pilots consider such combat as something they would want to engage in since it ment losing advantages like speed and maunvering etc...
So I thought I would post this on the boards and see what you folks had to say one this. Looking forward to the ideas and comments.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 8072
Location: United States
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| Posted: 17-Oct-2004 19:45 Post subject: RE: Melee Weapons Worth it or not? |
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Under level 2 rules you always do better with a kick or two punches.
A successful kick results in a pilot check for your opponent and is one easier to hit then melee weapons.
Two punches give you two chances of 1:6 to the head, where a melee weapon is 1:36.
Swords have the same to-hit as kicks, but you still hit on the full body chart and when they hit they don't results in an automatic pilot check.
When you figure their weight you can often add other equipment that you'd get more use out of.
The only plus melee weapons have is you can fire everything on the mech excepting the arm the weapon is in
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 17-Oct-2004 23:22 Post subject: RE: Melee Weapons Worth it or not? |
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I think melee weapons are fine for showmanship, but useless on the battlefield. Solaris VII crowds probably love seeing hatchet-wielding mechs piloted by lunatics. 
Real warriors won't get in close unless it's really too good to refuse, and then they'll kick or punch. A mech lying on it's face isn't going to kick back. 
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DarkAdder
Clan Star Adder
Star Commander
Joined: 10-Jan-2004 00:00
Posts: 604
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| Posted: 18-Oct-2004 01:59 Post subject: RE: Melee Weapons Worth it or not? |
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Ive had too many good strikes with them to completely discount hatchets and swords. Granted, they have a distinct 'clown feet' aspect to them. In that, they look good, but dont do much. But I still recall the times I ran up and cleanely sliced off the other guys arm.
In the Solaris arenas, these things are going to see alot of use. Remember, its not whether you win or lose on Solaris, its how flashy you are doing it. In fact, one of the mechs in the 3055 TRO is build specificaly for the Solaris arenas.
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Oafman
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 18-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1657
Location: United States
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| Posted: 18-Oct-2004 08:38 Post subject: RE: Melee Weapons Worth it or not? |
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I love using the weapons, but I do not always use them. If I am fighting in a city, or anywhere that close quarters fighting will be required I always have at least one mech that has either a sword of a hatchet. This serves 2 purposes. 1) If they get close I can hit them pretty hard, 2) a large mech with a melee weapon will make some gamers move mechs away from the hatchet wielding mech. Either way, it can change the tactics of the other player. Which in a city or dense woods can be very helpful. Changing someones movement when they have so few options to begin with can be very useful. 
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bandit
Clan Nova Cat
Star Colonel
Joined: 21-Sep-2002 00:00
Posts: 482
Location: Italy
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| Posted: 18-Oct-2004 08:45 Post subject: RE: Melee Weapons Worth it or not? |
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I try how possible to avoid melee combat,
but if I get a chance I will not disdain.
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Mordel
Mordel.Net
Administrator
Joined: 03-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 6061
Location: United States
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| Posted: 18-Oct-2004 09:44 Post subject: RE: Melee Weapons Worth it or not? |
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My personal opinion is that melee weapons have no place on the battlefield. They should be used in places like Solaris and other gaming arenas, as others have already pointed out.
Melee weapons gain absolutely no benefit over a standard physical attack. You lose with them because you can't pack on as much armor or weaponry. Sure, they look cool, but realistically, they're useless.
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Erenon
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Sergeant
Joined: 04-Jun-2004 00:00
Posts: 976
Location: Singapore
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| Posted: 18-Oct-2004 09:47 Post subject: RE: Melee Weapons Worth it or not? |
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Quote:
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On 2004-10-18 08:45, bandit wrote:
I try how possible to avoid melee combat,
but if I get a chance I will not disdain.
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Very different from the normal clanner ain't ya?
Me, i won't go out to carry a melee weapon... only use it if i don't have a choice. I prefer kicking personally.
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Bo
ComStar
Private, First Class
Joined: 20-Sep-2002 00:00
Posts: 39
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| Posted: 18-Oct-2004 11:31 Post subject: RE: Melee Weapons Worth it or not? |
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I have found them a waste of tonnage in nearly all scenarios. But that hasn't stopped me from designing more than one Mech with TSM and a hatch.
I also play with a house rule that only allows one punch in an effort to make club(-like) physical attacks more appealing.
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Moonlapse Vertigo
Clan Goliath Scorpion
Star Captain
Joined: 02-Mar-2004 00:00
Posts: 207
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| Posted: 18-Oct-2004 13:54 Post subject: RE: Melee Weapons Worth it or not? |
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I think that a weopon isn't a good use of tonnage, especially with two punches or a kick being better choices as others in the thread have said.
The weopons do give a certain amount of "style" , I guess, to a mech, I love the way a Black Knight looks with a Hatchet.
Some people use the punch table on a hatchet hit for a house rule, this makes weapon attacks more worthwhile.
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DarkAdder
Clan Star Adder
Star Commander
Joined: 10-Jan-2004 00:00
Posts: 604
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| Posted: 18-Oct-2004 14:24 Post subject: RE: Melee Weapons Worth it or not? |
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Well, theres also a psychological aspect to them, too. Just look at a Hatchetman or Axeman. Would you want to get close to those things? Hell, no! And what about a Berzerker sprinting towards you, raising that gawdawfully big axe? I'll admit it, I would pass a brick if that thing ran up and cut down one of my mechs in one turn.
And the No-Dachi. A bigass mech brandishing a katana thats 3 meters long.
All these mechs are very intimidating, and are built specifically to get in close. One of the Axeman designs mounts an AC 20, and the thing weighs enough that it can deal a goo-sized wupping with the axe to boot.
And if nothing else, they make a good 'should all else fail' weapon. As the Wise Man said, "When it doubt, beat the [CENSORED] out of it."
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mud
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 23-Jul-2002 00:00
Posts: 1618
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| Posted: 18-Oct-2004 15:25 Post subject: RE: Melee Weapons Worth it or not? |
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If you set up your fire lanes correctly though those charging 'mechs should take a nice pounding when they try and break through.
Of course, such weapons are a lot more useful in close terrain, like woods or a city, but I still prefer fists just because you get the 1 in 6 heat shot chance.
On a side note I never much understood why hatchets and such didn't also roll on the punch chart. You pay enough for them in terms of tonnage and their range is so limited that it's not really a breaker in terms of game balance.
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mud
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 23-Jul-2002 00:00
Posts: 1618
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| Posted: 18-Oct-2004 15:27 Post subject: RE: Melee Weapons Worth it or not? |
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Becides, you can always take a limb from a downed 'mech.
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Pinhead
The Bloody Clans
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1258
Location: United States
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| Posted: 18-Oct-2004 15:43 Post subject: RE: Melee Weapons Worth it or not? |
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Don't like weapons, but I guess I wouldn't mind them totally if they hadn't implemented TSM without balancing it cleanly.
I do though agree with Mordel, weapons are only so-so.. I'll kick 9 out of 10 times. Once you rip a leg off, your opponent is pretty easy to kill.
Pin
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bladewind
Free Rasalhague Republic
Major General
Joined: 02-Oct-2004 00:00
Posts: 1054
Location: Singapore
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| Posted: 18-Oct-2004 19:44 Post subject: RE: Melee Weapons Worth it or not? |
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| physical combat is best left as last line of defence.
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