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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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 Posted: 08-Feb-2005 16:02 Post subject: Thug vs Victor |
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Okay was wondering what everyone thought of these two mechs.
Soon to be playing a small one hour fight between the two and I thought I would get input from you guys on the overall worthiness of these mechs. What I am looking for is what would make one want to pilot one over the other.
The tech is 2750 for the Thug and 3050 for the Victor. Both are the main line models not variants.
Thanks.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Warhammer: 3025
Freelance
Captain, AFFC (Ret.)
Joined: 29-Jan-2005 00:00
Posts: 1856
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| Posted: 08-Feb-2005 16:33 Post subject: RE: Thug vs Victor |
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It's a pretty tough call. The Victor has the reach on the Thug, but the Thug's primary weapons don't require ammo, so it can lay down a steady stream of fire. The Victor is more maneuverable, but the Thug has more armor.
It more comes down to personal preference. I'd pick the Victor.
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Seraph
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Major
Joined: 11-Mar-2004 00:00
Posts: 1744
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| Posted: 08-Feb-2005 16:39 Post subject: RE: Thug vs Victor |
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Sorry to say but I'd go with the Thug winning. They have the same movement speed but the Victor has the edge with the jumpjets. However the Thug has the edge in heat dissapation and armor coverage. The Victor could possibly overheat if it kept jumping arouund and firing everything it has, the Thug wouldn't overheat if it fired everything it had, ran, and had an engine hit. Victor has greater range but has limited ammo, so thee pilot wold want to close to get maximum effect out of the ammo he has. Another factor, ammo. When the Thug runs out of amo he still has 2 PPC's to rely on, the Victor is stuck with a pair of medium pulse lasers.
With the exception of good dice rolls, good tactics, and/or divine intervention. The Thug will win 8 of 10 times in any terrain.
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ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
Colonel
Joined: 18-Aug-2003 00:00
Posts: 2021
Location: United States
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| Posted: 08-Feb-2005 16:54 Post subject: RE: Thug vs Victor |
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I'm gonna have to agree with Seraph on this one. The Victor is just so very much undergunned thanks to the Gauss weighing so darned much. Barring the lucky head shots and such this one is Thug hands down.
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Colonel Ralgith t'Mayasara
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company 'Ralgith's Renegades'
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AWAD
Draconis Combine
Chu-sa
Joined: 06-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 766
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| Posted: 08-Feb-2005 22:14 Post subject: RE: Thug vs Victor |
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And Victor gets mugged by the big mean Thug. That damn thing is near indestructable. Has the aura. In a city or very rought terrain then it goes 50-50. If really good pilots, then I think the Thug takes it.
AWAD- Held off 3 Clan Heavies with a Thug. It did die, but casued havoc and gave our side the victory
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Pinhead
The Bloody Clans
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1258
Location: United States
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| Posted: 08-Feb-2005 23:48 Post subject: RE: Thug vs Victor |
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I'd take the Victor, but then again, I'd take a Victor against alot of mechs.
I like Victors.
In that Battle, the Victor cannot heat up unless it starts taking bad damage, or the pilot is not a very good pilot. It has 16 shots with its gauss rifle which is gonna hurt.
Neither has a standard engine so no XL death. The Thug actually has a tougher time with heat at ranges greater than about 6, which the Victor should try to stick to. It would be an interesting match though.
Pin
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Daphne Wilde
Star League Defense Force
Lieutenant Colonel
Joined: 19-Sep-2003 00:00
Posts: 425
Location: United States
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| Posted: 09-Feb-2005 00:00 Post subject: RE: Thug vs Victor |
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Hurm....... this really depends on where it takes place. Out in the open with LONG fields of fire, the Victor can stay pretty much at range to hit and move ( and run away when the ammo runs dry ) but if it is up close and personal well the thug will win most every time. The short range mods with the gauss ( and the damage) will cripple the victor, while the won't really harm the thug because the thug can always double punch. something the Vic cannot do.( other reasons apply also but these are the best and shortest.)
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Lt.Col.Daphne Wilde
504 Para. 82 Div.
Io
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AlexxKnight
Federated Suns
Colonel
Joined: 11-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 787
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| Posted: 09-Feb-2005 07:14 Post subject: RE: Thug vs Victor |
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For me it all ocmes down to manueverability and the proficiency to use it. Tons of armor are great, but as the old addage goes, speed kills. If the enemy can't hit you, he can't kill you. The Victor has the long range punch with the Gauss Rifle. If both pilots are of equal skill and not green, the Victor will rape the Thug with the Gauss at range, riping the Thug apart before he has a chance ot really get into the fight. But if the Thug closes early enough, then things may change with the Thug coming out on top. It really all comes down to three things here:
1) Terrain
2) Initiative
3) The almighty die roll (as a factor in #2 above).
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Command Company, Crimson Janissaries
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The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. . . And you
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ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
Colonel
Joined: 18-Aug-2003 00:00
Posts: 2021
Location: United States
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| Posted: 09-Feb-2005 09:02 Post subject: RE: Thug vs Victor |
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Quote:
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On 2005-02-09 07:14, AlexxKnight wrote:
For me it all ocmes down to manueverability and the proficiency to use it. Tons of armor are great, but as the old addage goes, speed kills. If the enemy can't hit you, he can't kill you. The Victor has the long range punch with the Gauss Rifle. If both pilots are of equal skill and not green, the Victor will rape the Thug with the Gauss at range, riping the Thug apart before he has a chance ot really get into the fight. But if the Thug closes early enough, then things may change with the Thug coming out on top. It really all comes down to three things here:
1) Terrain
2) Initiative
3) The almighty die roll (as a factor in #2 above).
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Problem is, the Victor won't be able to STAY at range. Ok, I jump backwards 3 in Victor, then I RUN forward 5 with Thug. Closes by 2 hexes every round, and the Thug may not have quite the range as the Vic, but it has enough that it'll get shot at 2-3 times (which at long range will probably miss) before it can start shooting back. As I said before, this is pretty much Thug hands down barring the head shots and such. Someone else posted pretty accurate odds from the times I've simmed this one out (8/10 Thug wins) on MegaMek just for the helluva it.
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Colonel Ralgith t'Mayasara
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company 'Ralgith's Renegades'
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Daphne Wilde
Star League Defense Force
Lieutenant Colonel
Joined: 19-Sep-2003 00:00
Posts: 425
Location: United States
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| Posted: 09-Feb-2005 13:22 Post subject: RE: Thug vs Victor |
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Do not forget terrain mods. those add/subtract from the movement and to-hit numbers. the possibility that you fight in thick woods makes two-three hexes the difference between line-o-sight and rolling "13"'s
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Lt.Col.Daphne Wilde
504 Para. 82 Div.
Io
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Seraph
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Major
Joined: 11-Mar-2004 00:00
Posts: 1744
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| Posted: 09-Feb-2005 18:00 Post subject: RE: Thug vs Victor |
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Something to be pointed out.
Thug goes 4/6/0
Victor goes 4/6/4
Sniping at range? You will find that is MUCH harder than you think. Especially when the speeds are the same.
As for heat. HA!
Thug's maximum heat with no engine damage: 30
Thug's heat disappation: 38
Victor's maximum heat with no engine damage: 16
Victor's heat disappation: 15
Armor difference: 4 TONS! It's like strapping a Locust to your back.
I love Victors and I'm not a fan of the Thug. But in this match-up the Victor loses. Even if you snipe at long range then retreat you still lose.
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Feret
Federated Suns
Private
Joined: 29-Dec-2004 00:00
Posts: 16
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| Posted: 11-Feb-2005 14:11 Post subject: RE: Thug vs Victor |
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| The thug should win this won hands down the only chance the victor has is if it can break line of site frequently on the thug.
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mud
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 23-Jul-2002 00:00
Posts: 1618
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| Posted: 11-Feb-2005 15:42 Post subject: RE: Thug vs Victor |
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If I were riding the Victor I'd want the 3025 variant with an AC/20; as long as the terrain was reasonably tight I could work my way in under those PPCs and then let the Thug have it with twenty points of whoop-ass....with any luck (i.e., initiative rolls going my way), I could pull off a few back shots, which ought to silence the Thug quickly enough.
As it stands though I'd have to go for the Thug hands down.
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Seraph
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Major
Joined: 11-Mar-2004 00:00
Posts: 1744
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| Posted: 11-Feb-2005 19:42 Post subject: RE: Thug vs Victor |
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mud, I concure.
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Daphne Wilde
Star League Defense Force
Lieutenant Colonel
Joined: 19-Sep-2003 00:00
Posts: 425
Location: United States
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| Posted: 11-Feb-2005 23:56 Post subject: RE: Thug vs Victor |
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that IS an interesting variation. The thug vs. 3025 Victor. now in THAT fight I agree I would take the AC/20 over the rail gun make it a better ( and More even) fight. True the Vic is still more dependent on ammo, but the mobility and the same place damage of the AC ( verses twin PPC strikes) should give the advantage to the Vic up close. ( but it has to get there. again terrain and cover play major factors in this.)
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Lt.Col.Daphne Wilde
504 Para. 82 Div.
Io
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