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ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
Colonel
Joined: 18-Aug-2003 00:00
Posts: 2021
Location: United States
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 Posted: 10-Feb-2005 10:46 Post subject: User Review: Mangonel MANG-01 |
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On 2005-01-31, jymset wrote:
This is a very good artillery 'mech. But you do invest in a 100-tonner in getting it....
One thing: that TAG idea will NOT work: you cannot fire anything else in a turn where you use TAG!
Get rid of that and some of the armour (which is excessive for a pure fire-support 'mech) and equip it either with ECM or some ML.
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Dunno where you got your info, but the BMR don't say a damned thing about not being able to fire TAG same turn as other weapons. Using TAG is NOT like normal spotting either, TAG is fired as if it is a normal weapon, and it matters not what else is fired that turn. Besides, even if it was this way, it only takes 1 of the 4 in a Lance to designate while the other 3 blow the **** out of the target.
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Colonel Ralgith t'Mayasara
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company 'Ralgith's Renegades'
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jymset
Scavenger
in pursuit of LosTech
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 956
Location: Germany
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| Posted: 10-Feb-2005 13:13 Post subject: RE: User Review: Mangonel MANG-01 |
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I know about TAG usage. And you can't fire other weapons with it. Heck, so many people think you can do, it made me unsure last December. So go and check chihawk's answer to me on that thread:
http://www.mordel.net/barandgrill/viewtopic.php?topic=5227&forum=1&5
And I hope you don't think I was trashing your design.... I know 2.5 seems kinda low, but it is the average mark. The only real qualm I had with this was that, at least going by 3025 mentality, deploying artillery on a defenseless 100-tonner seems inefficient. Otherwise, cool design. And yes, I had to speak up about the TAG thing..... No hard feelings, I hope (considering I've just had my own designs posted....)
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"Rear armour is defeatist!" - unknown Kuritan Mechwarrior
The AC5 is a great gun!
On heat, 3025 style:
A Rifleman knows no heat.
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ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
Colonel
Joined: 18-Aug-2003 00:00
Posts: 2021
Location: United States
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| Posted: 10-Feb-2005 13:50 Post subject: RE: User Review: Mangonel MANG-01 |
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Well, it's pretty odd considering I've got my BMR right in my lap and TAG does NOT say that you can't fire it with other weapons.
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Direct from BMR:
TARGET AQUISITION GEAR (TAG)
A spotter uses target aquisition gear to designate for an attack by a homing missile fired from an Arrow IV Missile Artillery System or semi-guided missiles fire from an LRM launcher.
Complete rules for using the Arrow IV system can be found in the Artillery section starting on p. 68. Rules for Semiguided LRMs can be found on p. 131 of this section.
Note that a given unit can mount only one TAG system
Light TAG
The Clans also employ a light version of target aquisition gear, which is smaller than the standard model, but has a shorter effective range.
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You wanna tell me where it says in there that you can't fire other weapons?
Also, I don't have hard feelings, I'm not a grudger 
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Colonel Ralgith t'Mayasara
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company 'Ralgith's Renegades'
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Seraph
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Major
Joined: 11-Mar-2004 00:00
Posts: 1744
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| Posted: 10-Feb-2005 16:10 Post subject: RE: User Review: Mangonel MANG-01 |
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Also, I don't have hard feelings, I'm not a grudger
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HA! I've played with you, you're a grudger! 
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If ignorance is bliss, then why are you so miserable?
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ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
Colonel
Joined: 18-Aug-2003 00:00
Posts: 2021
Location: United States
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| Posted: 10-Feb-2005 20:13 Post subject: RE: User Review: Mangonel MANG-01 |
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On 2005-02-10 16:10, Seraph wrote:
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Also, I don't have hard feelings, I'm not a grudger
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HA! I've played with you, you're a grudger!
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Nah, BEING a grudger, and role playing a grudger are two completely different things. Did I mention I'm a consumate actor? I carried on 2 seperate lives on an online game for over a year, till I got bored with it. No one EVER figured it out without being told.
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Colonel Ralgith t'Mayasara
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company 'Ralgith's Renegades'
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jymset
Scavenger
in pursuit of LosTech
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 956
Location: Germany
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| Posted: 11-Feb-2005 01:57 Post subject: RE: User Review: Mangonel MANG-01 |
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Really, I don't have my MR accessible right now. I can't remember - I think it was written down with the description of TAG. It may also have been stated with the TRO:3050. Remember, I'm an oldie, but also poor. So I don't have the MR:revised. But I actually don't think they'd change that. It would be a rather major change.
chihawk, can you help out again?
_________________
"Rear armour is defeatist!" - unknown Kuritan Mechwarrior
The AC5 is a great gun!
On heat, 3025 style:
A Rifleman knows no heat.
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jymset
Scavenger
in pursuit of LosTech
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 956
Location: Germany
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| Posted: 11-Feb-2005 01:59 Post subject: RE: User Review: Mangonel MANG-01 |
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Seems to me that the description for TAG only really tells you of construction details - you can only mount one.
So, what are the details on it in the artillery section?
_________________
"Rear armour is defeatist!" - unknown Kuritan Mechwarrior
The AC5 is a great gun!
On heat, 3025 style:
A Rifleman knows no heat.
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 11-Feb-2005 05:32 Post subject: RE: User Review: Mangonel MANG-01 |
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On 2005-02-11 01:59, jymset wrote:
Seems to me that the description for TAG only really tells you of construction details - you can only mount one.
So, what are the details on it in the artillery section?
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BMR, revised. It's in the section on Homing Arrow IV missiles, page 76.
quote: "The spotting unit cannot make any attacks of its own during the arrival turn."
So no, you can't use your guns while spotting with TAG.
But an arty mech with TAG could work around it, sort of. Just fire the missiles high so they'll arrive next round, THEN spot for them. 
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ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
Colonel
Joined: 18-Aug-2003 00:00
Posts: 2021
Location: United States
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| Posted: 11-Feb-2005 09:15 Post subject: RE: User Review: Mangonel MANG-01 |
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On 2005-02-11 05:32, Nightmare wrote:
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On 2005-02-11 01:59, jymset wrote:
Seems to me that the description for TAG only really tells you of construction details - you can only mount one.
So, what are the details on it in the artillery section?
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BMR, revised. It's in the section on Homing Arrow IV missiles, page 76.
quote: "The spotting unit cannot make any attacks of its own during the arrival turn."
So no, you can't use your guns while spotting with TAG.
But an arty mech with TAG could work around it, sort of. Just fire the missiles high so they'll arrive next round, THEN spot for them.
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Except that is talking about normal spotting, NOT about an attack with TAG. In normal spotting you cannot fire ANY weapons, period.
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Colonel Ralgith t'Mayasara
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company 'Ralgith's Renegades'
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 11-Feb-2005 16:01 Post subject: RE: User Review: Mangonel MANG-01 |
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Quote:
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On 2005-02-11 09:15, ralgith wrote:
Except that is talking about normal spotting, NOT about an attack with TAG. In normal spotting you cannot fire ANY weapons, period.
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Notice: Section on HOMING Arrow IV missiles. You spot for them with a TAG. I just didn't feel like writing more than a single line...
The sentence before it starts "To use TAG equipment for target designation" and goes on with range and LOS and Off-Board attack phase.
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A tree fall in the forest, and no one is around, and it hits a mime. Does anyone care?
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ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
Colonel
Joined: 18-Aug-2003 00:00
Posts: 2021
Location: United States
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| Posted: 11-Feb-2005 17:45 Post subject: RE: User Review: Mangonel MANG-01 |
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Quote:
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On 2005-02-11 16:01, Nightmare wrote:
Quote:
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On 2005-02-11 09:15, ralgith wrote:
Except that is talking about normal spotting, NOT about an attack with TAG. In normal spotting you cannot fire ANY weapons, period.
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Notice: Section on HOMING Arrow IV missiles. You spot for them with a TAG. I just didn't feel like writing more than a single line...
The sentence before it starts "To use TAG equipment for target designation" and goes on with range and LOS and Off-Board attack phase.
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Ok, I don't mind being corrected. I was looking TAG up in the index and looking at the pages listed there for all the TAG rules. Unfortuantely it apprears the index is incomplete as it does not list that entry for TAG, so I missed it completely.
Thanks ppl.
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Colonel Ralgith t'Mayasara
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company 'Ralgith's Renegades'
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