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jymset
Scavenger
in pursuit of LosTech
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Location: Germany
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 Posted: 11-Mar-2005 05:36 Post subject: I need info about the different Battletech games concerned with space battles! |
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There have been very many different versions of space battle games for BT. I was never really concerned with aerospace fighters and the like, so I was never involved. Which means that I don't have a clue about the relationship of one edition to the next? Could anyone give me a rundown of these?
I know there was:
Astrotech
Battlespace
Aerotech
Aerotech 2
Aerotech 2 revised
What were they? What are their differences?
And where did the rules for atmospheric combat, as described in citytech fit in?
Thanks for any and all info!
_________________
"Rear armour is defeatist!" - unknown Kuritan Mechwarrior
The AC5 is a great gun!
On heat, 3025 style:
A Rifleman knows no heat.
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bandit
Clan Nova Cat
Star Colonel
Joined: 21-Sep-2002 00:00
Posts: 482
Location: Italy
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| Posted: 11-Mar-2005 08:44 Post subject: RE: I need info about the different Battletech games concerned with space battles! |
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I never heard nothing about astrotech.
Anyway Battlespace and AT are comparable like battletech and battleforce.
I miss battlespace.I got both AT and AT2
and missing AT2rev.I think little is changed.
Atmospheric rule are present in both manual
and more detailed in AT2(but more complicated)There's also a intermediate lvl
with a more abstracted version where is possible to get with ASF while playing Battletech,but still the game is focused on the ground.Finally you could find rule in space with vector simulating a 3d game ,but again at cost of simplyciti
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 11-Mar-2005 09:10 Post subject: RE: I need info about the different Battletech games concerned with space battles! |
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The only other thing ever added to the space/air battle rules of BT was an attempt to bring in the fighters from FASA's Top Gun game, they had some rules and gave the Top Gun fighters a 5 or 8 point damage point of for their missiles. But mean while the fighters were as fragile as the normal conventional fighters in the game. This was for Aerotech.
Beyond the occasional fighter poping up in a scenario pack or what not, they really didn't do much more with the space part.
You have the sourcebook Dropships and Jumpships, that attempted to cover how those worked etc...then the fighters and ships in the TR2750.
Beyond that nothing else was done till FASA put out BATTLESPACE and then Aerotech 2 and Aerotech 2 Revised.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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jymset
Scavenger
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Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: Germany
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| Posted: 11-Mar-2005 09:14 Post subject: RE: I need info about the different Battletech games concerned with space battles! |
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I'm not sure I understand.
1) Maybe Astrotech is the German translation for Aerotech (1). It was the boxed set that preceded Battlespace.
2) So, in the US it was Aerotech, Battlespace, Aerotech 2?
3) So, how is that figured in the rules? The first two editions were more large-scale, Aerotech 2 is more small-scale?
4) So how come they are releasing all the warships now?
5) Wasn't the fighter design, the actual construction rules, changed when Aerotech 2 came along?
6) How?
7) How is the revised edition of AT2 different to the original?
There you go. Thanks for the above answers, now you have the next lot of questions! 
_________________
"Rear armour is defeatist!" - unknown Kuritan Mechwarrior
The AC5 is a great gun!
On heat, 3025 style:
A Rifleman knows no heat.
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jymset
Scavenger
in pursuit of LosTech
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 956
Location: Germany
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| Posted: 15-Mar-2005 16:52 Post subject: RE: I need info about the different Battletech games concerned with space battles! |
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Can someone try and give the above questions a shot?
Apart from that, I have since acquired (the unrevised) Aerotech2. My goodness, it rocks!
I love that it has a complete Technical Readout of all (up to that stage) existing fighters! Hence, another few questions:
1) I assume the major change to the revised edition is the addition of some weaponry which came out later (RAC, HGauss, RL) and the errata and completion of the BV table, as well as some errata of the TRO, right? I spotted some minor errors....
2) Where did some of the more obscure designs come from? I love that they included the Boeing Jump Bomber! And I recognise most other designs! But:
A) Light/Medium/Heavy Strike Fighters are where from exactly? Originals of Aerospace 2? Or from the original Aerospace?
B) Well, the Eisensturm was first designed in that book. And has since made an appearance in a TRO. What about the Sai, where is that from?
C) The Centurion, Lightning, Hellcat, Eagle and Thunderbird - I am assuming that they are from the original Aerospace, right!? Or did the Hellcat come from somewhere else? It is the only one of the five to carry a specific designation (HCT-213).....
D) Specifically for B and D - well, the art in Aerospace 2 for them was obviously new. Was there any art in the orignal source? If yes, was it different? And, last but not least, was there fluff supplied in the original source?
jymset, still wanting to know soooo much!
Oh, and thanks in advance for any and all info!
_________________
"Rear armour is defeatist!" - unknown Kuritan Mechwarrior
The AC5 is a great gun!
On heat, 3025 style:
A Rifleman knows no heat.
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jymset
Scavenger
in pursuit of LosTech
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 956
Location: Germany
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| Posted: 16-Mar-2005 12:56 Post subject: RE: I need info about the different Battletech games concerned with space battles! |
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Though I'm getting more and more sceptical about the prospects of my above questions being answered, I'm still going to use this thread for spontaneous bursts of thoughts on AT2.
Well, it inspired me to go back to my old TRO:3025, to read up on those fighters there.
Boy, are the Davion machines boring compared to the other ones!
I love Steiner's light (wonderful Seydlitz, a very convincing craft which makes complete sense) and heavy fighter (gotta love and/or respect that the Chippewa gives up all thoughts for protection just to field obscene amounts of weapons), but their Lucifer is also an excercise in Blandness.
The Shilone, in comparison, looks so much cooler, and has similar, but more striking weaponry. I also love the Slayer. Yeah, the Kuritans look very, very good. It has great weaponry, too. Simple but effective. The Sholagar, well it does its job.
Liao fields the space Mechbuster! Nuff said! Transgressor and Thrush both actually look menacing, their all-energy output is probably quite effective.
And finally: I think that Marik, for once, really shines! Ok, their Cheetah is just a poor man's Thrush (though with more armour). But, wow, the Corsair (only space PPC in 3025) sure kicks arse! And the Riever, wow, definitely oozes style! Half an SRM carrier (deadliest vehicle no1) and half a Demolisher (deadliest vehicle no2), all up in space!
Well, just rambling on.....
_________________
"Rear armour is defeatist!" - unknown Kuritan Mechwarrior
The AC5 is a great gun!
On heat, 3025 style:
A Rifleman knows no heat.
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Oafman
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 18-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1657
Location: United States
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| Posted: 16-Mar-2005 13:55 Post subject: RE: I need info about the different Battletech games concerned with space battles! |
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ramble on my friend....
I just have not played the AT stuff much so I cannot contribute much. The only time I played was on a map that I drew myself with pieces cut out of scrap mat board.
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Festina Lente!
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 16-Mar-2005 14:06 Post subject: RE: I need info about the different Battletech games concerned with space battles! |
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On 2005-03-11 09:14, jymset wrote:
I'm not sure I understand.
1) Maybe Astrotech is the German translation for Aerotech (1). It was the boxed set that preceded Battlespace. |
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Sounds right Aerotech 1 preceded Battlespace.
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2) So, in the US it was Aerotech, Battlespace, Aerotech 2?
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Yes.
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3) So, how is that figured in the rules? The first two editions were more large-scale, Aerotech 2 is more small-scale?
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AT1 was all fighters with some Dropship combat worked in. Beyond that it didn't cover anything bigger. BattleSpace tried to give us Fleet level and size space combat and while it was a start it was complex and sluggish and folks didn't like it. Aerotech 2 (R) covers all of the levels, fighter vs Fighter vs Dropship vs Warship etc...
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4) So how come they are releasing all the warships now? |
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They are re-releasing them so as that they are now offical with the new rule set on construction and play. The new rules being those found in Aerotech 2 Revised.
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5) Wasn't the fighter design, the actual construction rules, changed when Aerotech 2 came along? |
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Yes. The armor diagram was changed, by this the engine armor and cockpit armor was dropped and they were add into the front and rear of the fighters for the most part or dropped altogether. Also at first conventional fighters couldn't mount engery weapons, but that was changed prior to the release of HMAero and was one of things fixed in the Reviesed rules set as well.
See above.
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7) How is the revised edition of AT2 different to the original? |
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It is easier to use, it covers everything flying that is above VTOLs on the aerospace food chain, it also allows for an easier format for construction. The rules themselves are straight forward and not written in a way to confuse or misled the players as to what is going on.
If you know how to play the original Aerotech, then playing Aerotech 2 isn't that hard. If you haven't gotten the Aerotech 2 Revised book, I would highly suggest it.
_________________
Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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jymset
Scavenger
in pursuit of LosTech
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 956
Location: Germany
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| Posted: 16-Mar-2005 14:19 Post subject: RE: I need info about the different Battletech games concerned with space battles! |
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Thank you very much, dear Sir Karagin!
On question 7:
What I meant specifically, how do AT2 and AT2r compare? Are there actual major rule changes? (you've pointed the energy weapon one out to me - so the Guardian now once again has the ML variant?) Or minor ones?
Seeing as you seem to have the info, oh knowledgable one, would it be possible for you to give me a quick rundown on my 2nd set of questions?
Thanks very much in advance for any further info!
@ Oafman - hahahaha! Well, you're still ahead of me in the experiment department! But I'm glad that you don't mind my babble!
_________________
"Rear armour is defeatist!" - unknown Kuritan Mechwarrior
The AC5 is a great gun!
On heat, 3025 style:
A Rifleman knows no heat.
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 16-Mar-2005 14:35 Post subject: RE: I need info about the different Battletech games concerned with space battles! |
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Quote:
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On 2005-03-15 16:52, jymset wrote:
Can someone try and give the above questions a shot?
Apart from that, I have since acquired (the unrevised) Aerotech2. My goodness, it rocks!
I love that it has a complete Technical Readout of all (up to that stage) existing fighters! Hence, another few questions:
1) I assume the major change to the revised edition is the addition of some weaponry which came out later (RAC, HGauss, RL) and the errata and completion of the BV table, as well as some errata of the TRO, right? I spotted some minor errors....
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What errors? If you could post them or send them Randal and Rick R. that way they can be addressed.
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2) Where did some of the more obscure designs come from? I love that they included the Boeing Jump Bomber! And I recognise most other designs! But:
A) Light/Medium/Heavy Strike Fighters are where from exactly? Originals of Aerospace 2? Or from the original Aerospace?
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These are new. They are I think more of a generic set of stats for fighters to allow for use as pirate ships or the like.
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B) Well, the Eisensturm was first designed in that book. And has since made an appearance in a TRO. What about the Sai, where is that from?
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The Sai was in the Sorberen Saber's unit/scenario pack. Some of the other less well know ships come from similar sources.
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C) The Centurion, Lightning, Hellcat, Eagle and Thunderbird - I am assuming that they are from the original Aerospace, right!? Or did the Hellcat come from somewhere else? It is the only one of the five to carry a specific designation (HCT-213).....
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Yes they are from the original Game and their stats are found there and never seems to get revised tell the new version came out. The Hellcat has two versions one is a SL fighter and the other is the 3025 version.
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D) Specifically for B and D - well, the art in Aerospace 2 for them was obviously new. Was there any art in the orignal source? If yes, was it different? And, last but not least, was there fluff supplied in the original source?
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The art wasn't in the original beyond some counters that you could hardly see and If IRC some grayscale drawings under the stats in the Aerotech rule book that came with the boxset. Not much fluff was given and I don't recall anything that stood out as far as that goes.
Hope this helps and if anyone else has better info please share it. Thanks!
_________________
Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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jymset
Scavenger
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Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 956
Location: Germany
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| Posted: 16-Mar-2005 14:55 Post subject: RE: I need info about the different Battletech games concerned with space battles! |
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What errors? If you could post them or send them Randal and Rick R. that way they can be addressed.
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Oh, the only thing that actually struck me was just lvl1 designs not having full half-tons of armour (this happens quite a few times). Though I'm sure that the BV are not totally correct!
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These are new. They are I think more of a generic set of stats for fighters to allow for use as pirate ships or the like.
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Really? Cool! So basically, it is up to you to think of stats for these? Like, the Light Strike Fighter is basically lvl1. So you could assume that in 3025 days, there were 10-ton fighters that looked like that?
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The Sai was in the Sorberen Saber's unit/scenario pack. Some of the other less well know ships come from similar sources.
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Actually, I think it was the Samurai that was published in Sorenson's Sabres. And it was 50 tons, not 40 like the Sai, which makes me think they are not related. The Samurai is A) unseen and B) omitted from AT2, making me think it is now kinda purged from the universe.... Does anyone know if the Sai is a design that was introduced in FM:Draconis Combine? There is an MRM version. And a Clan version!!!!!!
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Yes they are from the original Game and their stats are found there and never seems to get revised tell the new version came out. The Hellcat has two versions one is a SL fighter and the other is the 3025 version.
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So, do the Hellcat stats (that design is lvl1, as opposed to the Hellcat II which carries a BProbe and is 10 tons lighter) originate from the fluff of TRO:2750? Because it wasn't really mentioned there....
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Hope this helps and if anyone else has better info please share it. Thanks!
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Yes, very much so! Thanks so much!
The only questions remaining now are the differences between AT2 and AT2r, and tiny details on the Sai and the Hellcat II!
So, if anyone knows the details of those, please shoot!
_________________
"Rear armour is defeatist!" - unknown Kuritan Mechwarrior
The AC5 is a great gun!
On heat, 3025 style:
A Rifleman knows no heat.
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 16-Mar-2005 20:36 Post subject: RE: I need info about the different Battletech games concerned with space battles! |
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The Samuari is still in AT2 Revised just as was in the first one.
The light fighters and such have stats, they are nothing speical or exciting, did you mean fluff for them?
Yes the Hellcat is Level 1 and the other is level 2 hence the SL tech.
As for the BV issue, they never seem to get those to match every single time. As for example, some of the Dropships in TR-3057R have their given BV via the book and HMAero gives you a different number, which while close isn't on target. One of those odd mysteries of BT.
_________________
Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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jymset
Scavenger
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Location: Germany
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| Posted: 17-Mar-2005 02:14 Post subject: RE: I need info about the different Battletech games concerned with space battles! |
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Cool! So the Samurai is still part of the BT universe!
I actually have an old model for it (yeah, bought a couple of fighters a while back, just for the models) - it is a beautiful thing. Would've hated not being able to use it, now that I'm getting into the rules. Which means, I will have to buy RS:AT2!!
Sorry, I had a typo above. Yes, I meant that it was up to the user to think of fluff for the designs of the conventional strike fighters! And yes, they are crap, but they will be useful in certain scenarios.
Oh, yes, the mysteries of BV..... 
Anyone know anything about the Sai? And what about a catalogue of differences between AT2 and AT2r?
_________________
"Rear armour is defeatist!" - unknown Kuritan Mechwarrior
The AC5 is a great gun!
On heat, 3025 style:
A Rifleman knows no heat.
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