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DarkAdder
Clan Star Adder
Star Commander
Joined: 10-Jan-2004 00:00
Posts: 604
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 Posted: 22-Mar-2005 02:46 Post subject: Flipping Arms |
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A question came up while Blackhand and I were trying to pummel each others mechs.
In the Rules of Warfare book (the only rulebook we had) it states that a mech without hand or lower arm actuators in either arms may flip its arms over to fire at targets in its rear arc.
Does that mean ONLY the arm that lacks hand and lower actuators may be flipped...
OR
Does the lack of hand and lower actuators in ONE arm mean that BOTH can be flipped...
OR
Do BOTH arms have to lack hand and lower actuators to flip EITHER arm?
Blackhand and I eventually decided that only the arm lacking the afforementioned acutators could be flipped.
If this is covered in one of the Master Rules, please let us know. Like I said, the Rules of Warfare was all we had.
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Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
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jymset
Scavenger
in pursuit of LosTech
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 956
Location: Germany
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| Posted: 22-Mar-2005 02:49 Post subject: RE: Flipping Arms |
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Well, what you did made perfect sense. Unfortunately it is incorrect!
To be able to flip arms, both arms have to come without any lower arm and hand actuators (at the start of the game - you can't flip if you had complete arms but then lost your actuators). They both have to be flipped at the same time.
If you play with fluff rules, the exception to this rule is the Quickdraw, which has complete arms but is meant to be able to flip anyway.
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"Rear armour is defeatist!" - unknown Kuritan Mechwarrior
The AC5 is a great gun!
On heat, 3025 style:
A Rifleman knows no heat.
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ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
Colonel
Joined: 18-Aug-2003 00:00
Posts: 2021
Location: United States
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| Posted: 22-Mar-2005 07:57 Post subject: RE: Flipping Arms |
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Also you cannot flip the arms of an Omni that is missing it's LA/HAND pods. However MegaMek used to glitch this one, dunno if they've fixed it yet 
I liked being able to flip my Timberwolf's arms LOL little Locust gets behind me and suddenly eats 2 (C) ERPPCs 
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Colonel Ralgith t'Mayasara
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company 'Ralgith's Renegades'
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jymset
Scavenger
in pursuit of LosTech
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 956
Location: Germany
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| Posted: 22-Mar-2005 08:15 Post subject: RE: Flipping Arms |
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Really?!?!
I didn't know that! Where is that written?
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"Rear armour is defeatist!" - unknown Kuritan Mechwarrior
The AC5 is a great gun!
On heat, 3025 style:
A Rifleman knows no heat.
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Moonlapse Vertigo
Clan Goliath Scorpion
Star Captain
Joined: 02-Mar-2004 00:00
Posts: 207
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| Posted: 22-Mar-2005 10:40 Post subject: RE: Flipping Arms |
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| Yeah, that can't be right...
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ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
Colonel
Joined: 18-Aug-2003 00:00
Posts: 2021
Location: United States
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| Posted: 22-Mar-2005 13:41 Post subject: RE: Flipping Arms |
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It is, because Omnis aren't constructed without, they are just podded. But like I said, MegaMek used to glitch and let me do it. I thought the rules for this was in BMR, but I don't remember. I'm not the one who submitted the bug report on it to the MegaMek team though. I do know it was on "Ask The Precentor Martial" though.
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Colonel Ralgith t'Mayasara
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company 'Ralgith's Renegades'
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Blackhand
Draconis Combine
Chu-i
Joined: 05-Jul-2002 00:00
Posts: 334
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 22-Mar-2005 13:44 Post subject: RE: Flipping Arms |
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What he fails to mention is that his Thor H jumps directly into my rear arc, and misses with a Jesus Salvo. Since he said he didn't break zellbrign I was able to fire back with my UAC 20 connecting with both shots...
Definately amuses me.
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 8072
Location: United States
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| Posted: 22-Mar-2005 13:55 Post subject: RE: Flipping Arms |
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Quote:
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On 2005-03-22 13:41, ralgith wrote:
It is, because Omnis aren't constructed without, they are just podded. But like I said, MegaMek used to glitch and let me do it. I thought the rules for this was in BMR, but I don't remember. I'm not the one who submitted the bug report on it to the MegaMek team though. I do know it was on "Ask The Precentor Martial" though.
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That's the only forum I read on CBT and I'm almost 100% certain that was never posted.
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Warhammer: 3025
Freelance
Captain, AFFC (Ret.)
Joined: 29-Jan-2005 00:00
Posts: 1856
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| Posted: 22-Mar-2005 14:15 Post subject: RE: Flipping Arms |
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Quote:
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On 2005-03-22 13:44, Blackhand wrote:
What he fails to mention is that his Thor H jumps directly into my rear arc, and misses with a Jesus Salvo. Since he said he didn't break zellbrign I was able to fire back with my UAC 20 connecting with both shots...
Definately amuses me.
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"Jesus Salvo"? 
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Evil is like a bowl of oranges. Only one, instead, is an orange of DOOM. That orange has a fate to rule over the other oranges with an iron fist. That orange is me.
Because sometimes, there are many guards in the castle.
Ya Rl'yeh!
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ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
Colonel
Joined: 18-Aug-2003 00:00
Posts: 2021
Location: United States
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| Posted: 22-Mar-2005 14:21 Post subject: RE: Flipping Arms |
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Was about a year and a half ago I'd guess, dunno. Like I said, wasn't me who submitted it. I posted there about C3 and was never answered though... hehe.
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Colonel Ralgith t'Mayasara
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company 'Ralgith's Renegades'
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Moonlapse Vertigo
Clan Goliath Scorpion
Star Captain
Joined: 02-Mar-2004 00:00
Posts: 207
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| Posted: 22-Mar-2005 16:31 Post subject: RE: Flipping Arms |
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Theres nothing in the BMRr I can see about Omnis not flipping arms.
p.129: "Omnimechs without hand/arm actuators suffer the usual restrictions and benefits of Mechs created without those actuators."
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DarkAdder
Clan Star Adder
Star Commander
Joined: 10-Jan-2004 00:00
Posts: 604
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| Posted: 22-Mar-2005 16:43 Post subject: RE: Flipping Arms |
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Jesus Salvo. N-- 1.The act of firing an alpha strike with an Insanely High number needed to hit. 2. -- Response of hidden units being uncovered at close range, i.e. the pilot screams "JESUS [EXPLETIVE] [EXPLETIVE]!!" while firing all available weapons.
This one actually evolved over several years of combat. Ive use the first definition on several occasions. And the second one as well. 
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Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
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Khayman
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Corporal
Joined: 14-Nov-2004 00:00
Posts: 91
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| Posted: 22-Mar-2005 17:01 Post subject: RE: Flipping Arms |
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LOL. That's a great phrase. Because of my desire for glory on the battlefield, I use the "Jesus Salvo" a lot.
In a way the whole omni mech thingy not being able to flip it's arms does make sense. So I can see what you are saying about that, however, I do not believe it that was correct. It may be just pod space on an omni but is you use that pod space to replace your LowArm and Hand actuators, then you have none left to restrict movement. Plus it wouldn't really make sense for some of the mech designs that are currently out. The Raptor, Strider, Owens, and Blackjack all seem and look capable of flipping their arms to me.
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 22-Mar-2005 17:02 Post subject: RE: Flipping Arms |
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We really need to get the Jesus salvo added to the rulebooks.
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 23-Mar-2005 04:18 Post subject: RE: Flipping Arms |
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Quote:
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On 2005-03-22 17:01, Khayman wrote:
Plus it wouldn't really make sense for some of the mech designs that are currently out. The Raptor, Strider, Owens, and Blackjack all seem and look capable of flipping their arms to me.
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Aren't all those IS omnis? Perhaps the clanners never built flippable arms since someone who lets the enemy behind him is stupid and deserves to die? No, that can't be, they also think it's your own fault if you don't have access to clantech when they kill you with it.
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