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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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 Posted: 04-Mar-2002 17:27 Post subject: Merc's and the IS |
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Has the role of the mercenary changed since the storyline has gone over to the FedCom Civil War?
Or was their role changed with the comming of the Clans?
I would be interested in the boards thoughts on this.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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CampingCarl
Free Worlds League
Master Sergeant
Joined: 24-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 176
Location: United States
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| Posted: 04-Mar-2002 20:26 Post subject: Merc's and the IS |
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| What do you mean by how their role has changed? I think that they are still as usefull as ever (but being Lyran that is probably biased). The only real change in role I can think of is when the houses hired them as cannon-fodder instead of combat in order to slow the clan advance.
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 24-Apr-2002 11:31 Post subject: Merc's and the IS |
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With the civil war heating up, it would not be in the best intrest of any merc unit to be caught on the losing side, thus they should remain out of it...
And I don't see the Combine hiring them in droves and Marik has stopped hiring them and the only powers left hiring them are Laio and WoB...but that last one means only units so down on their luck they will take any job...and the Chaos March is slowly lossing the Chaos setting as the powers grab planets and the region stablizes under WoB control...
So I think their role and place has changed a lot since the Clans have shown up and the FC has splittered into warring factions.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Vampire
Free Worlds League
Lieutenant Colonel
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 912
Location: Spain
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| Posted: 24-Apr-2002 12:10 Post subject: Merc's and the IS |
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Civil wars are mercenaries' heaven, both sides are usually desperate to attract additional troops and expertise and the price for their services goes up as both sides try to buy out the other.
Also in civil wars many of the restrictions on the conduct of war are loosened, meaning more opportunities to exert the traditional mercenary right to pillage, murder and rape.
And as soon as the side you work for starts losing, you can always switch sides. whatever your past, the winning side is usually willing to save blood with gold, even if you aren't hired again, or don't have the opportunity to make a deal selling out fortresses or intel about your former side, the victor is usually willing to let you go away.
Personally, I think the FedCom Civil war is the greatest business opportunity since the Chaos March *very big evil grin*
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Memento audare semper
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Gunslinger Patch
Royal Black Watch Regiment
Major
Joined: 04-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 1611
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| Posted: 26-Apr-2002 00:01 Post subject: Merc's and the IS |
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I would think the civil war would be a bad place for at least the honorable mercs. If they fight for the Lyrans, they are fighting for the people that take political prisoners and kill them along with various and sundry other Amaris-like actions. If they fight for Victor, what can he pay them with? And what will the Lyrans do to any opposing mercs they capture? Mercs are there to make a living, not get killed.
On the plus side, with all the House troops blasting away at each other, who is guarding against other Houses, Clanners and pirates? Mercs, that's who. Any planetary govt in the Fedcom with reason to fear such an attack will likely be happy to hire on even small merc units for garrison duty with contract terms that will keep them from taking sides in the civil war.
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"Those who beat their guns into plows will plow for those with guns..." -Thomas Jefferson
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Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2039
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| Posted: 26-Apr-2002 10:59 Post subject: Merc's and the IS |
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On 2002-04-26 00:01, Gunslinger Patch wrote:
I would think the civil war would be a bad place for at least the honorable mercs. If they fight for the Lyrans, they are fighting for the people that take political prisoners and kill them along with various and sundry other Amaris-like actions. If they fight for Victor, what can he pay them with? And what will the Lyrans do to any opposing mercs they capture? Mercs are there to make a living, not get killed.
On the plus side, with all the House troops blasting away at each other, who is guarding against other Houses, Clanners and pirates? Mercs, that's who. Any planetary govt in the Fedcom with reason to fear such an attack will likely be happy to hire on even small merc units for garrison duty with contract terms that will keep them from taking sides in the civil war.
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Gee...you aren't biased against my faction at all, are you?
I'll remind you that many Lyrans fight for Victor, or at least against Katherine, and that many DAVIONS have also been known to execute, IN COLD BLOOD, surrendered troops, take fights into cities, etc., etc., etc.
This war isn't as one sided, good vs. evil, Lyrans are bad, Davions are good, as many would like to make it out to be...
Ruger
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Gunslinger Patch
Royal Black Watch Regiment
Major
Joined: 04-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 1611
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| Posted: 27-Apr-2002 05:42 Post subject: Merc's and the IS |
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From the books I've read so far, that's how it looks. The Lyrans have mostly been made to look like any moment they'll announce that their Archon wants to find some leibenstraum fur das fatherland.
There are some official Fedcom Amaris evil types faced by the young Carlyle and Davis McCall of the Grey Death. But were the villains not Fedcom troops in Lyran space?
That and Victor's loyalists haven't tried to make people who disagree with them have accidents like what Katherine and LOKI have been busy doing to Victor's loyalists in Lyran space ever since they took over on Tharkad.
On Kentaris IV, the Lyrans (no doubt with strong Germanic accents) massacred the entire ruling family, a clear atrocity. On Kathil, they refused lawful orders to leave and again had to be driven out by force. On Thorin, the honorable Prussian-type Rommel lookalike tries to punish an officer who murders a political dissident and his superiors stop the court martial cold and let the goose steppers have free rein.
I have yet to read a book where Victor's loyal people are behaving with dishonor. The only Fedcom commanders that have done so are the ones that are trying to cut themselve a slice of pie while Victor is too busy to notice.
The Kuritans are the good Samurai now, the bad Samurai days are long gone. Sure looks to me like the Lyrans have been recast as the Nazi garrison of a Noweigian island and Victor's people are looking a lot like the cast of The Commandos Strike At Dawn.
[ This Message was edited by: Gunslinger Patch on 2002-04-27 05:43 ]
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"Those who beat their guns into plows will plow for those with guns..." -Thomas Jefferson
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Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2039
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| Posted: 27-Apr-2002 09:42 Post subject: Merc's and the IS |
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On 2002-04-27 05:42, Gunslinger Patch wrote:
I have yet to read a book where Victor's loyal people are behaving with dishonor. The only Fedcom commanders that have done so are the ones that are trying to cut themselve a slice of pie while Victor is too busy to notice.
[ This Message was edited by: Gunslinger Patch on 2002-04-27 05:43 ]
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Hmm...haven't read Imminent Crisis then, have you?
You seem to be under the misconception that only Lyran troops have been performing "attrocities"...perhaps you better look better at which units are doing each actions...there are many DAVION units and DAVION allied mercs that are committing "attrocities" as well...
Plus, I expect the FedCom Civil War sourcebook to paint a bit of a different picture than may have been thus far projected in many of the books...
Remember that the BTech universe is not about good vs. evil...it's about the layers of grey...
Just remember the treatment the Clans got at first...
Ruger
[ This Message was edited by: Ruger on 2002-04-27 09:46 ]
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 27-Apr-2002 15:40 Post subject: Merc's and the IS |
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On 2002-04-27 09:42, Ruger wrote:
Hmm...haven't read Imminent Crisis then, have you?
Ruger
[ This Message was edited by: Ruger on 2002-04-27 09:46 ]
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Nice but once again you fail to point out that LOYAL FED SUN TROOPS FIRED ON THE MERCS who were trying to kill the surreneding Lyrans...nice of you NOT to bring up that point...
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Gunslinger Patch
Royal Black Watch Regiment
Major
Joined: 04-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 1611
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| Posted: 28-Apr-2002 00:47 Post subject: Merc's and the IS |
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Actually, I haven't been getting any of the books beyond the ones I mentioned. The local game stores haven't had Btech book since before FASA went down and when I checked on Barnes and Noble they never had any either. I had given up on looking for them, since the game store and the local book stores don't seem to know where Battletech books come from anymore.
But by chance last night I checked out Amazon, I buy my music from their site, and decided to look at computer games and books while I was at it. Seems the half dozen Battletech novels B&N and the local stores never heard of have all been hiding out at Amazon. I reckon I'll be doing plenty of reading next week when they get here.
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"Those who beat their guns into plows will plow for those with guns..." -Thomas Jefferson
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Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2039
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| Posted: 28-Apr-2002 01:13 Post subject: Merc's and the IS |
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On 2002-04-27 15:40, Karagin wrote:
Quote:
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On 2002-04-27 09:42, Ruger wrote:
Hmm...haven't read Imminent Crisis then, have you?
Ruger
[ This Message was edited by: Ruger on 2002-04-27 09:46 ]
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Nice but once again you fail to point out that LOYAL FED SUN TROOPS FIRED ON THE MERCS who were trying to kill the surreneding Lyrans...nice of you NOT to bring up that point...
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Nice of you not to point out that it wasn't only mercs executing prisoners, but also DAVION HOUSE UNITS as well...
And STEPPING ON EJECTED PILOTS, and DESTROYING NATIONAL LANDMARKS, and the like...
Oh no...only Lyrans and the like do these sorts of things...no DAVION would EVER do that...
Nice rose colored glasses you have there...
I wasn't saying that people on both sides weren't doing the right thing...I was pointing out that it wasn't only Lyrans doing the wrong ones...
Ruger
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 28-Apr-2002 02:01 Post subject: Merc's and the IS |
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Let's see Merc's in the employment of the Duke of the Cappellan March are doing what you claim...BUT yet TROOPS under his control fired on the same said mercs to STOP the killings....interesting that you WON'T see that part.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Sir Henry
Team Bansai
Senior Tech Specialist
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4899
Location: United States
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| Posted: 28-Apr-2002 09:04 Post subject: Merc's and the IS |
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At least the Davions don't have a KinSlayer as a leader....
Sir Henry
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Sir Henry
A Dragon in the disguise of a bunny, is still a Dragon.
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Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2039
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| Posted: 28-Apr-2002 11:15 Post subject: Merc's and the IS |
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Quote:
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On 2002-04-28 02:01, Karagin wrote:
Let's see Merc's in the employment of the Duke of the Cappellan March are doing what you claim...BUT yet TROOPS under his control fired on the same said mercs to STOP the killings....interesting that you WON'T see that part.
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From my post...
>>I wasn't saying that people on both sides weren't doing the right thing...I was pointing out that it wasn't only Lyrans doing the wrong ones... >>
Funny...it seems I WAS seeing that part...
Here...let me quote you something to prove that it wasn't just mercs executing those prisoners...
"He must have seen sights like this a hundred times in his years on the battlefield. What made this one different was that six Legion 'Mechs-and five FUSILIERS, he noted to his disgust-stood in a circle with their weapons trainedon three Lyran 'Mechs in their midst. From what Grayson could see, the Hatamoto-Chi, piloted
by Colonel Chad Dean himself, had just executed the Lyran MechWarrior. The scene became even more surreal as the Hatamoto-Chi calmly walked up to the next 'Mech, placed its right arm-mounted PPC close to the Falconer's head and discharged at point-blank range. The Falconer joined its companion in slumped repose on the muddy grass of the park." -pg 246-247, Imminent Crisis...
And again...
"By looking the other way-just like his duke-he'd given tacit approval to the barbarism HIS TROOPS had heaped on the enemy in the past months. It simply did not matter that the invaders were doing the same. Two wrongs did not make a right."-pg. 252, Imminent Crisis...
And do I need to remind you that only ONE unit that was involved on New Syrtis was Lyran...out of 6 or more? All the rest were Davion, save one Davion allied merc unit...
And do we even need to go into how so many units, loyal to Victor, invaded the Combine rather than join his war effort after Arthur's death? Attacked them before the evidence was fully investigate? Or how Victor himself started this war on a false pretext (the death of Arthur)?
But don't let me stop you with the facts...
Ruger
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Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2039
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| Posted: 28-Apr-2002 11:18 Post subject: Merc's and the IS |
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On 2002-04-28 09:04, Sir Henry wrote:
At least the Davions don't have a KinSlayer as a leader....
Sir Henry
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No...just someone that would attempt to replace the heir to a throne with a double...just someone who would abandon his people to an inept and untried leader when he KNEW someone would try to take his throne in his absence, just so he could go off to play war...just someone who would start a war on a false pretext, giving carte blanche to those who follow him, growing that war into something that will kill BILLIONS...just someone who killed his own cousin...
Oh wait...that last one invalidates your whole arguement, doesn't it? 
Ruger
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