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Kraken
Federated Suns
Marshal
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2755
Location: United States
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 Posted: 18-May-2005 16:07 Post subject: GM Call: Anti-Missile System |
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This is an in-house rules change I was thinking about for the Anti-Missile System to reflect the fact that we now have larger missile launchers than what the people who created it (game-wise) had at the time.
1. As the AMS is basically a glorified machine gun, I was going to give it the machine gun's ammo load; in other words, 200 rounds per ton of ammo.
1A. The AMS will likewise do damage akin to a machine gun, both for the purposes of determining ammo explosion and in the event the weapon is used offensively (max range: 3).
2. Resolving # of missiles shot down and # of rounds used -
For all launchers in size up to 10, the normal method (d6 missiles, 2d6 rounds) will be used. After that, the dice rolls will increase accordingly - 2d6 missiles / 4d6 rounds for a 12, 15, or 20 rack; 3d6 missiles / 6d6 rounds for a 30 rack, and 4d6 missiles and 8d6 rounds for a 40 rack.
Thoughts?
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Delta
Lyran Alliance
Leutnant
Joined: 11-Dec-2004 00:00
Posts: 635
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| Posted: 18-May-2005 16:45 Post subject: RE: GM Call: Anti-Missile System |
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| While I like the ammo call I take the ammo usage more than 4D6 into question. Otherwise the thing's rate of fire would be like...300 rounds a second or something.
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Seraph
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Major
Joined: 11-Mar-2004 00:00
Posts: 1744
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| Posted: 18-May-2005 17:44 Post subject: RE: GM Call: Anti-Missile System |
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I agree with Delta, up the ammo. I'd keep the number shot down and the number of shots used the same. It will have the same rate of fire against an SRM-2 as against an MRM-40. So it gets the same dice rolls for both.
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generalstoner
Federated Suns
Private
Joined: 20-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 17
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| Posted: 19-May-2005 11:30 Post subject: RE: GM Call: Anti-Missile System |
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The AMS in its current config is a worthless weapon. I agree that the ammo needs to be boosted per ton at the very least. As for the rate of fire question i have a different spin.
The MG in battletech is meant to be more along the lines today's cannon, sor of like the 25mm bushmasters on the bradley IFV. It has a decent rate of fire but is meant for controlled bursts. It will still pulp unarmored infantry and can even do damage to light armored vehicles.
As for the AMS, this is meant more to be along the lines of the navy's CIWS. I is a 20mm gatling gun that fire over 3000 rounds a minute. In real life i think the average CIWS on a ship has only 3-5000 rounds in its magazines. This would be more than sufficent comsidering the CIWS will not even engage until the missile is several hundreds yards away. in this case, guessing as to how fast the missle is traveling, it is only going to have something like 6-8 seconds to track and engage a missile. It is not going to expend all of its ammo in this timeframe and theoretically could engage possibly 2 more inbounds. At this point the gun has either killed the vampire or the ship is at the bottom of the ocean.
As a result i think that the AMS should get more ammo and a 2D6 shot against all inbounds. I think that this is fair.
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 20-May-2005 06:16 Post subject: RE: GM Call: Anti-Missile System |
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I think that AMS in BT is just rapid-fire MG that tries to fire as many rounds to the general direction of incoming missile cloud as possible (just like AA defense against Kamikaze fighters in WWII). This may be the reason why it goes through ton of MG ammo so fast.
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Shadowking
Kell Hounds
Captain
Joined: 22-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 365
Location: United States
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| Posted: 23-May-2005 01:03 Post subject: RE: GM Call: Anti-Missile System |
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Well, MaxTech has rules that state that AMS can be used as a weapon. The standard works as a normal Machine Gun while the laser version works as a Small Laser. With the exception that they only have a range of 1.
And AMS would be more useful if only it actually carried more shots per ton.
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Warhammer: 3025
Freelance
Captain, AFFC (Ret.)
Joined: 29-Jan-2005 00:00
Posts: 1856
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| Posted: 23-May-2005 02:08 Post subject: RE: GM Call: Anti-Missile System |
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The CBT machine gun is supposed to represent the line of vehicle-mounted automatic weapons used today. Good examples would be the .50 calibre M2, the .30 calibre m1919, or 7.62mm M134 minigun.
The larger weapons like the 25mm M242 autogun I believe are represented in the line of Autocannon.
I also agree with generalstoner in that the AMS is most closely related to the MK 15 "Phalanx" CIWS used by the American navy. It has a ROF of approximately 3,000 RPM, with a fire selector of 60 round bursts, 100 round bursts, or continuous fire, and possesses a magazine of 1,550 rounds. The entire system weighs in at about 6,120 KG.
I game terms, the system would have a magazine capacity for a set number of shots, between 16 and 28 (depending on the fire mode), and would take up 6.5 tons of space.
[ This Message was edited by: Warhammer: 3025 on 2005-05-23 03:51 ]
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5724
Location: United States
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| Posted: 23-May-2005 02:52 Post subject: RE: GM Call: Anti-Missile System |
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Quote:
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On 2005-05-23 02:08, Warhammer: 3025 wrote:
The CBT machine gun is supposed to represent the line of vehicle-mounted automatic weapons used today. Good examples would be the .50 calibre M2, the .30 calibre m1919, or 7.62mm M134 minigun.
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This is yet another of the many what caliber or fuction does this have that proliferates CBT since its beginings, and just like Autocannons there is no final statement or agreement that is ever reached.
Many say its a smaller Caliber weapon like the support weapons on tanks, others say there axial mounted weapons like those on many tanks, and still others say they are 20mm to 30mm weapons. It seems that nobody is right and nobody is wrong.
CBT ppl need to alter weapon fluffs to finaly answer these darn questions once and for all.
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Seraph
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Major
Joined: 11-Mar-2004 00:00
Posts: 1744
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| Posted: 23-May-2005 18:41 Post subject: RE: GM Call: Anti-Missile System |
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Reading over the fluff of a few TRO's. I've pretty much gone by the way guns are like today. Their size is variant upon the manufacturer. If one has a larger bore then it has a lower rate of fire. The opposite being true. They still fall into the category of the weapon as they are listed on the record sheet. As chihawk likes to say, "The fluff, in no way, has any affect on the rules of CBT."
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bladewind
Free Rasalhague Republic
Major General
Joined: 02-Oct-2004 00:00
Posts: 1054
Location: Singapore
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| Posted: 23-May-2005 20:54 Post subject: RE: GM Call: Anti-Missile System |
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i always believed the MGs in CBT were 20mm Gatling style miniguns.
In most drawings, they were all represented as a multi barrelled minigun. Clearly evident on the Piranha.
As for the ACs, there is even less standardization. For example the Crusher SH Cannon (AC-20) fires a burst of 10 150mm shells in a matter of seconds while the 185mm ChemJet gun (AC-20) is just 1 massive shell.
Of course like many mentioned eariler, fluff neither affects CBT nor mechwarrior even.
[ This Message was edited by: bladewind on 2005-05-23 20:57 ]
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 24-May-2005 03:04 Post subject: RE: GM Call: Anti-Missile System |
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I heard that current classification says that MGs are up to 20mm. Anything above 20mm is AC, if it can use explosive shells. this classification comes from ammo type used, ACs can use explosive shells, heavy MGs don't have caliber for effective AP rounds.
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