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Cadet
ComStar
Lieutenant, SG
Joined: 17-Mar-2002 00:00
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 Posted: 29-Apr-2002 03:52 Post subject: TC/Pulse= Munchy? |
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Why not just say Pulse Lasers can't be tied onto the TC? I mean the fluff does mention rapid fire which would suggest to me that it is more like firing a machine gun than a single beam. It really might not be able to use the TC for support.
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 29-Apr-2002 04:00 Post subject: TC/Pulse= Munchy? |
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Having a mech that is nothing but Pulse lasers and a Targeting computer is munchy and borders on cheating in my book, because the user is using a loophole to win, thus killing the fun of the battle and turning the game into a munchkin fest.
Having a couple of Medium Pulses or one Large Pulse on a mech along with other weapons that are the PRIMARY weapons and having a TC on the mech is fine, all is balanced out and no one system is really given a super bonus as is the case with a Pulse/Targ Combo mech...
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Cadet
ComStar
Lieutenant, SG
Joined: 17-Mar-2002 00:00
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| Posted: 29-Apr-2002 04:03 Post subject: TC/Pulse= Munchy? |
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But it still begs the question:
If having TC and PL is a munchy weapon combo, why not just make it illegal?
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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| Posted: 29-Apr-2002 04:07 Post subject: TC/Pulse= Munchy? |
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That I doubt will not happen, here it is 2002 and we have been complaining about this problem since 1990...the odds of TPTB getting the hint is as about as high as my ex-girlfriend's house getting hit by a meteorite.
I think that it should be like Machine Guns, great you have them nope you can't use the TC with'em...
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Cadet
ComStar
Lieutenant, SG
Joined: 17-Mar-2002 00:00
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| Posted: 29-Apr-2002 04:09 Post subject: TC/Pulse= Munchy? |
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And that is what I would propose. You can use the Pulses, just not tied in to the TC.
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ICER
Clan Hell's Horses
Galaxy Commander
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 29-Apr-2002 04:10 Post subject: TC/Pulse= Munchy? |
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Yes it is munchy. Pulse are helpful in long jumping mechs (IE The Wraith)And the Targeting computer is just as helpful in mechs for long range fire support.
But put them together. And you have a munchkin mech that uses tech not skill to defeat it's oppenet.
Made illeagel. NO, Why should it? In the long run. It is not the mech that wins the day, It is the pilot.
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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| Posted: 29-Apr-2002 04:13 Post subject: TC/Pulse= Munchy? |
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Take Clan tech, build a mech that is both heat effecient, has Targ/Pulse combo and is as fast as a medium on a heavy frame and you have something that even skill is not going to beat and pilotting issues are not that big of a deal since the Munchkin will have at the least a 2 gunner 2 piloting...hell my own group in my spin off universe only get's 3 gunnery 3 piloting and they still get their asses kicked 8 times out of 10.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Cadet
ComStar
Lieutenant, SG
Joined: 17-Mar-2002 00:00
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| Posted: 29-Apr-2002 04:19 Post subject: TC/Pulse= Munchy? |
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And that's the problem (and has been since the TC was introduced). It no longer needs skill to be effective. Take the Masakri with a custom 4 LPL and a TC. He doesn't really have to do much really, just get you in range. It's an assault mech and will get the elite pilot by default and if he stands still will most likely hit with 4 head choppers per turn.
I know, it's something I've been bitching about for years, and now that the IS has the ability to make TC/PL combos, it is only going to get worse. I'm just dreading the day when that is tied into a C3 system as well. Throw a C3 slave onto a Savannah Master and get right next to the target mech.
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Clan Hell's Horses
Galaxy Commander
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| Posted: 29-Apr-2002 04:23 Post subject: TC/Pulse= Munchy? |
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Quote:
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On 2002-04-29 04:13, Karagin wrote:
Take Clan tech, build a mech that is both heat effecient, has Targ/Pulse combo and is as fast as a medium on a heavy frame and you have something that even skill is not going to beat and pilotting issues are not that big of a deal since the Munchkin will have at the least a 2 gunner 2 piloting...hell my own group in my spin off universe only get's 3 gunnery 3 piloting and they still get their asses kicked 8 times out of 10.
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I have made such a mech. I called it the Paste. A 55 ton,fully armored, with a 6,9,6, move and 6 MPL with a TC. and somewhat heat effecient. I made to surive in my old group of 1-2 and 2-2 pilots.
It was a bit of cheese to combat the cheese they were throwing at me.
I still rememeber the look on the GM face when I opened up on him for the first time, He stopped the game to check the mech and make sure it was leagle.
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Cadet
ComStar
Lieutenant, SG
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| Posted: 29-Apr-2002 04:30 Post subject: TC/Pulse= Munchy? |
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I knid of understand thw whole munchy mentaility. I mean there really is no reason that you can't do anything if the rules allow it. And in this case it allows for someone to make a Clan mech with a Pulse/TC combo and throw in an elite pilot. But at some point you just have to say "That isn't fun any more"
(I'm not calling ICER a munch either.)
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ICER
Clan Hell's Horses
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| Posted: 29-Apr-2002 04:43 Post subject: TC/Pulse= Munchy? |
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That is why I do not use it anymore. And when I did use it. The pilot was a 3-4 (Green for a clanner) that was against much better pilots. And the old group. You got one pilot. If he died. Then you are out of the game till next week. were you started with a green pilot and start working your way up.
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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| Posted: 29-Apr-2002 04:54 Post subject: TC/Pulse= Munchy? |
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I understand, I made up some really munchy weapons for a group in my BT universe, and when I showed them to a friend who plays in said universe, he is like "Wow...Wave Motion Gun in the Mouth Syndrome, why play anymore when those things can drop a mech in two hits?"
And he was right, I dropped the weapons and went back to the drawing board.
The point where the TC/Pulse Laser Combo stopped being fun is right around the point that EVERY single Clan mech in use by someone in a convention game or not, has it. And then they the folks using said machines instist on having elite pilots...last time I check folks with skills of 2/2 or less were rare and most are dead now or around Morgan Kell or Jamie Wolf's age and if they are still in the thick of things they are not doing Banzai charges just to prove TC/Pulse is the fastest way to kill a mech.
And folks wonder why I like Thunder rounds and things like that.
I once played in a game at a con where it was bring your best mech, you make it the GM will check it out before the battle kind of thing, now this was about two years after the shock of the Clans was wearing off, right around the time of the relase of TR3055, and we had everything from TC/Pulse boats to super heat free mechs to some that had to be illegale.
I went with a friend's mech called the Slam Cat, 85 ton Clanner with UAC 10s a TC and 4 mediums 5/8/5 and decent armor. I lost. BUT did bring down one of those super COOL no heat worries type mechs by targeting the center torso and blowing the damn thing up.
So I spent 6 hours fighting off 10 other players only to die when a lose my own CT from a rear shot with two Gauss slugs and a roll of boxcars on the critial hits.
The whole battle was munchkin city...and I got to see first hand how folks can abuse loop holes and then cry when that doesn't allow them to win. You should have heard the arguements after the game...
Using loopholes to win takes away the fun for the other players and those that do it are the first to cry foul when it is done to them. I alway love the folks that put a TC on a mech with LB-X ACs and then try to tell me that they get a -2 to their rolls, one for the TC and one for the Cluster, and the look on their face when I quote the rule book with page number that says NOPE YOU CAN'T DO THAT, they have that look like Homer does when he knows he is busted and can't come up with something to say...it's priceless...
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Sir Henry
Team Bansai
Senior Tech Specialist
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| Posted: 29-Apr-2002 08:07 Post subject: TC/Pulse= Munchy? |
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I have an Answer....Artillery!!!!!Blow his butt back to the LZ before he can even see you....
Sir HEnry
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Sir Henry
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 29-Apr-2002 08:32 Post subject: TC/Pulse= Munchy? |
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Oh grasshopper, one would not want to use artillery since one would have to listen other wise and sage persons decry the action since, falling shells will land where they and the fates chose, and thus, old grasshopper, those wise and sage persons will say you and I have violated the scared and ancient Ares Convention.
Then they will mass with others of like mind and wipe us out.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Cadet
ComStar
Lieutenant, SG
Joined: 17-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 495
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| Posted: 29-Apr-2002 12:01 Post subject: TC/Pulse= Munchy? |
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Artillery is nice, but woefully under powered in the game.
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