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Kalo Osis
Clan Ice Hellions
Star Colonel
Joined: 07-Jul-2005 00:00
Posts: 446
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 Posted: 22-Jul-2005 20:43 Post subject: Orion vs Black knight |
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Ok, here is a pair of the classic mechs. I want to know what you battletech veterans out there think about both designs. Pros, cons, and who would win in the following situation. In general, which is the better design. Being a hardcore clanner, I would go with the Orion, but I want to hear it from the pros.
Terrain: Urban/Heavy Woods
Models: ON1-K, BL-7-KNT
[ This Message was edited by: Kalo Osis on 2005-07-22 20:49 ]
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-Kalo on the Solaris 7 Battlemech Arenas
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McBride
Draconis Combine
Shujin
Joined: 06-Nov-2004 00:00
Posts: 101
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 22-Jul-2005 21:17 Post subject: RE: Orion vs Black knight |
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Well... to first put the side by side.
Armour: Orion packs more, 55 points more, to be exact, putting it at 231 to the Knight's 176.
Heat Sinks: Orion has 10 to the Black Knight's 20
Speed: Both are 4/6 with no jumping ability.
Weapons: The Black Knight packs a fearsome arsenal for all ranges. It can open with it's PPC, then switch to a pair of Large lasers, ending finally with 4 MLs, all without overheating. If one were to combine weapons from the different bracket, a single LL and 3 MLs would be a nice combo, still leaving heat to spare for movement.
The Orion has slightly less in the way of weapons. It can open with an LRM-15 before the Knight is even in range, joined thereafter by a AC/10, still giving it an advantage in firepower over the Knight's dual LL. In close however, the Orion falls short of the Knight, carrying dual MLs and an SRM-4.
In the environment given, I'd have to say that the battle will still go to the Orion however. That extra 55 points of armour will be nice for soaking up the 20-23 points of damage the Knight dishes out every turn, while returning 20 damage of its own using the AC and MLs, occasionally trading a ML for the SRM for the crit potential.
In short the Orion's durability should allow it to win the day.
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Stinger
The Knights of Chaos
General
Joined: 30-Apr-2002 00:00
Posts: 1833
Location: United States
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| Posted: 23-Jul-2005 00:48 Post subject: RE: Orion vs Black knight |
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I think this one is going to come down to die rolls and the play style. I prefer the Black knight actually and think that if it wants to run hot for a bit it can put a serious hurtin on the Orion by alternating blasts of the PPC and 2 LL one round and then 2LL the next just to keep the heat under control. I think if the BK keeps at range long enough the LRMs arent that big of a threat and should run dry without causing to much damage.
But Tactics will be the name of this game in this one.
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Stinger
If it's "creepy" to use the Internet, military satellites, and robot aircraft to find a house full of gorgeous young models so I can drop in on them unexpected, then FINE, I'm "creepy". Howard Wolowitz. BBT.
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 23-Jul-2005 06:06 Post subject: RE: Orion vs Black knight |
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Close match, but I would vote for Orion, because of it's armor.
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bladewind
Free Rasalhague Republic
Major General
Joined: 02-Oct-2004 00:00
Posts: 1054
Location: Singapore
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| Posted: 24-Jul-2005 12:03 Post subject: RE: Orion vs Black knight |
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Orion.
Its just so tough. Sure all those ammo will mean trouble sooner or later but the BK does have any free floating crit seeker weapons so the Orion is pretty safe for a while.
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mud
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 23-Jul-2002 00:00
Posts: 1618
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| Posted: 24-Jul-2005 17:53 Post subject: RE: Orion vs Black knight |
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In close terrain though the Orion's LRM is worse than useless. In heavy woods the Black Knight will eat the Orion for breakfast...as much as I hate to say it, 'cause I love the Orion.
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AWAD
Draconis Combine
Chu-sa
Joined: 06-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 766
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| Posted: 25-Jul-2005 11:12 Post subject: RE: Orion vs Black knight |
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I love the Orion, why, it is so damn ugly and underestimated. I am so tired of every Merc having a Black Knight. It either is so cool looking, has DHS, ER, or you name it, it is called a laser boat. But this is an orginal design.
The LRM and its ammo is a huge drawback to the Orion in this fight. But with that said it can take the Black Knight, but it would be tough. To me the game comes down to heat. If the Black Knight plays the scale properly, IE overheating, but not more than 14, then it has the advantage. That will compensate for the Orions extra armor and now the ammo is a liability.
AWAD- Loose a SRM and the AC10 becomes an AC20
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mud
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 23-Jul-2002 00:00
Posts: 1618
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| Posted: 25-Jul-2005 15:59 Post subject: RE: Orion vs Black knight |
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Turning the AC/10 into an AC/20 takes a lot off of the Orion's range though...not really worth it.
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"The enemy's gate is down."
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McBride
Draconis Combine
Shujin
Joined: 06-Nov-2004 00:00
Posts: 101
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 25-Jul-2005 16:40 Post subject: RE: Orion vs Black knight |
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| In this proposed battle, range isn't a big factor. Given the close terrain, you're going to be right in one another's faces anyways.
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 26-Jul-2005 00:50 Post subject: RE: Orion vs Black knight |
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Quote:
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On 2005-07-25 16:40, McBride wrote:
In this proposed battle, range isn't a big factor. Given the close terrain, you're going to be right in one another's faces anyways.
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Can you say close combat? The Orion has 32 points of armor on the legs, the Black Knight has 20. Losing a leg is NOT a happy result in close combat. Orion wins.
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 26-Jul-2005 06:21 Post subject: RE: Orion vs Black knight |
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No DHSs and ERs here, both are lvl 1 designs, and Black Knight has only 11.5t of armor 
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McBride
Draconis Combine
Shujin
Joined: 06-Nov-2004 00:00
Posts: 101
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 26-Jul-2005 08:44 Post subject: RE: Orion vs Black knight |
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Quote:
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On 2005-07-26 00:50, Nightmare wrote:
Quote:
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On 2005-07-25 16:40, McBride wrote:
In this proposed battle, range isn't a big factor. Given the close terrain, you're going to be right in one another's faces anyways.
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Can you say close combat? The Orion has 32 points of armor on the legs, the Black Knight has 20. Losing a leg is NOT a happy result in close combat. Orion wins.
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Yup, especially if the Orion throws in some kicks to go with its weapons fire. The BK pilot is not going to be a happy camper at the end of this duel.
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Kalo Osis
Clan Ice Hellions
Star Colonel
Joined: 07-Jul-2005 00:00
Posts: 446
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| Posted: 31-Jul-2005 11:47 Post subject: RE: Orion vs Black knight |
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Yup, seems like most of us agree. Orion would win. It has more armor, and better weaponry for said situation. Seems like old Kerensky's mech wins again.
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"I prefer to fight for a meaningful purpose, rather than to provide a spectacle for the ignorant masses."
-Kalo on the Solaris 7 Battlemech Arenas
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