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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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 Posted: 23-Oct-2005 05:31 Post subject: C3 shock? |
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I'm just reading through TRO 3055 upgrades and I stumbled upon strange piece of text there.
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Galahad 3 fluff, TRO 3055 upgrades, p. 116
Deployment
... two support Trinaries were tasked with air defense. Overall the new Galahad performed extremely well, but the six machines assigned to air defense ultimately won the battle. Assigned alongside support 'Mechs like the Rifleman IIC and the Kraken, these Galahads linked their sensor suites with those of their Starmates to gain complete control of the skies over Monamora. The Riflemans' RADAR and LIDAR systems picked up Blood spirit fighters long before they reached the battlefield. Directed by the Galahads, the two Trinaries brought down ...
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This seems that Star Adders used technology quite similar to IS C3 network. Is this normal in clan vs. clan engagements?
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Khayman
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Corporal
Joined: 14-Nov-2004 00:00
Posts: 91
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| Posted: 23-Oct-2005 06:53 Post subject: RE: C3 shock? |
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Nope, those filthy Star Adders have to break rules of engagement when they need to defeat us Blood Spirits!... er ex-blood spirit? 
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 23-Oct-2005 07:20 Post subject: RE: C3 shock? |
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No, long time ago I was somewhere between clan Smoke Jaguar and Draconis Combine, now I'm DC only, but I still sympathize with crusader cause (mainly HH, JF) when I play for clan.
Much more disturbing than breaking ROE and being disgraced by starting the Great Melee, I would be disturbed by the fact that clan has this type of technology. I doubt that they would mount simple copy of C3 network ...
I know that remote targeting with TAG is already in use, but I was unaware that something like this was possible, or even thinkable with clans (even naturalized IS clans).
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5724
Location: United States
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| Posted: 23-Oct-2005 17:14 Post subject: RE: C3 shock? |
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Quote:
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On 2005-10-23 05:31, Sleeping Dragon wrote:
I'm just reading through TRO 3055 upgrades and I stumbled upon strange piece of text there.
Quote:
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Galahad 3 fluff, TRO 3055 upgrades, p. 116
Deployment
... two support Trinaries were tasked with air defense. Overall the new Galahad performed extremely well, but the six machines assigned to air defense ultimately won the battle. Assigned alongside support 'Mechs like the Rifleman IIC and the Kraken, these Galahads linked their sensor suites with those of their Starmates to gain complete control of the skies over Monamora. The Riflemans' RADAR and LIDAR systems picked up Blood spirit fighters long before they reached the battlefield. Directed by the Galahads, the two Trinaries brought down ...
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This seems that Star Adders used technology quite similar to IS C3 network. Is this normal in clan vs. clan engagements?
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I think you guys are reading to much into this fluff: 1] because it is fluff and 2] because what it is describing is hardly C3.
What I feel that is describing is a tactic that even the clans would use, which is the interlinking of Sensor detection data. The U.S. does this with the AWACS tracking aircraft, which tracks hundreds of contacts and transmits that Data to ships, facilities, and aircraft. The Rifleman has always been listed as having better and longer ranged then normal Air Detection equipment. Overall, Hardly a move the gives any single Mechwarrior and advantage.
As for breaking ROE, I may not remember accurately because it has been 5 years since i last read the details of the ROE but what i remember is that the Rules apply to like Combat: Mech vs Mech, Fighter vs Fighter; and not to Mech vs Fighter combat with the exception of Trials. Even the Clans will call in Arty and Air Support, which was shown in the books. So i feel that since this Trinary was tasked with AA Defense that the normal ROE does not apply. However, like I said, I could be wrong.
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 24-Oct-2005 13:21 Post subject: RE: C3 shock? |
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Well, I'm far from having full understanding of ROE, but joining the systems seems strange with clans.
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5724
Location: United States
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| Posted: 24-Oct-2005 22:02 Post subject: RE: C3 shock? |
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Quote:
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On 2005-10-24 13:21, Sleeping Dragon wrote:
Well, I'm far from having full understanding of ROE, but joining the systems seems strange with clans.
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How does joining RADAR data seem strange?
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 24-Oct-2005 22:23 Post subject: RE: C3 shock? |
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Actually what they seem to be suggesting is more of a ground radar units tracking systems similar to what is used with SAM missiles and AAA Guns like the Avenger and the Linebacker systems.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 25-Oct-2005 11:05 Post subject: RE: C3 shock? |
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Using any help in combat is a little against clan mindset, as I understand it. Even in task where the possibility for gaining some honor is minimal. The text actually looks like the Galahads coordinated whole group with their com suites. Riflemen used radars to pick up the foe, but transferring exact enemy positions directly seems to be very similar to C3 link.
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AlexxKnight
Federated Suns
Colonel
Joined: 11-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 787
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| Posted: 25-Oct-2005 19:41 Post subject: RE: C3 shock? |
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Quote:
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On 2005-10-24 22:23, Karagin wrote:
Actually what they seem to be suggesting is more of a ground radar units tracking systems similar to what is used with SAM missiles and AAA Guns like the Avenger and the Linebacker systems.
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The only Linebacker system I'm aware of is in development/testing by the US NAVY!!! So unless you know of antoher one, I think is more along the lines of SAM and AAA fire control Radar. While the Linebacker System is a form of SAM Firecontrol is primary use is for targets at altitudes to great for Mech based fire to reach. Just thuoght I'd throw that out there. But your point is still valid.
I'd also like to say that I totally agree with the idea that the C3 System in Battletech, is a lot link the various LINK Systems in use by the US Military today.
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Command Company, Crimson Janissaries
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 25-Oct-2005 21:32 Post subject: RE: C3 shock? |
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Lineback is a Bradely IFV with Stinger missiles inplace of the TOWs and a different fire control for the Bushmaster to engage aircraft better.
The Army has been playing around with this for close 10 years now and I believe they sent a few to Iraq. (why is not really known).
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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AlexxKnight
Federated Suns
Colonel
Joined: 11-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 787
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| Posted: 25-Oct-2005 23:57 Post subject: RE: C3 shock? |
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Well then I stand corrected.
THe Linebacker I'm familiar with is an addition to the Aegis System.
[ This Message was edited by: AlexxKnight on 2005-10-25 23:58 ]
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Alexx Knight, Lance Sgt.
Command Company, Crimson Janissaries
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 26-Oct-2005 03:08 Post subject: RE: C3 shock? |
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Quote:
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On 2005-10-25 23:57, AlexxKnight wrote:
THe Linebacker I'm familiar with is an addition to the Aegis System.
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Two AA systems in development with similar names? Don't you think it's the same system?
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AlexxKnight
Federated Suns
Colonel
Joined: 11-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 787
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| Posted: 26-Oct-2005 07:15 Post subject: RE: C3 shock? |
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I'm pretty sure the two systems are not the same. The sytem for the Bradley is for the Army.
The Navy's Linebacker system is an Add-on for the Aegis Weapon System on CGs and DDGs and is for TBMD or Theater Ballistic Missle Defense.
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Alexx Knight, Lance Sgt.
Command Company, Crimson Janissaries
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 26-Oct-2005 07:44 Post subject: RE: C3 shock? |
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"LINEBACKER is a modification to the AEGIS Weapon System that allows AEGIS ships to detect, track, and when coupled with the STANDARD Missile-2 Block IVA, intercept Tactical Ballistic Missiles (TBM)."
"Bradley Linebacker consists of the M2A2(ODS) Bradley with an integrated, externally mounted launcher that can fire four Stinger missiles while stationary or on the move. An integrated position, navigation, and north seeker capability allows for on-the-move cueing. FAAD C2 and Sentinel provide targeting information to assist in acquisition."
If only the name was for the command system, not the actual vehicle. I guess we can't cry about how there are different units with the same name in Btech anymore.
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 26-Oct-2005 22:59 Post subject: RE: C3 shock? |
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They sound very similar to me...
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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