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SaberDance
Federated Suns
Colonel
Joined: 07-May-2004 00:00
Posts: 837
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 Posted: 01-Feb-2007 20:09 Post subject: RE: Would Sonic weapons work in BT? |
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IRL, I'm a big proponent of DE weapons, including sonic weapons.
But I don't know where they'd fit in the B-Tech universe.
Other than the Sonic Stunner, which I think is already in the game.
I mean, what Karagin describes sounds like a PPC, but we've already got a PPC.
And I don't want to create another generation of PPC with no drawbacks (I mean, the clan ER was bad enough...)
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"Politics is the Art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, misdiagnosing the problem, and applying the wrong solution."
-Groucho Marx
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tom kazansky
Federated Suns
Private, First Class
Joined: 11-Jan-2007 00:00
Posts: 39
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| Posted: 01-Feb-2007 20:14 Post subject: RE: Would Sonic weapons work in BT? |
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| Well I was responding to Stinger's post, so wouldn't it be logical that I was talking to him? (That means I was talking to Stinger by the way)
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Feb-2007 20:39 Post subject: RE: Would Sonic weapons work in BT? |
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On 2007-02-01 20:14, tom kazansky wrote:
Well I was responding to Stinger's post, so wouldn't it be logical that I was talking to him? (That means I was talking to Stinger by the way)
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If you are talking to Stinger then how about you quote the message so we know...
And given that your posting to this thread does indeed read as an attempt to troll for flames...forgive me for be confused at what your input was doing.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Feb-2007 20:41 Post subject: RE: Would Sonic weapons work in BT? |
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On 2007-02-01 20:09, SaberDance wrote:
I mean, what Karagin describes sounds like a PPC, but we've already got a PPC.
And I don't want to create another generation of PPC with no drawbacks (I mean, the clan ER was bad enough...)
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Okay interesting could you expand on this please? I am interested in why you drew that from my limited decription.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5724
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Feb-2007 21:51 Post subject: RE: Would Sonic weapons work in BT? |
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On 2007-01-31 21:48, tom kazansky wrote:
A more important question would be: Do you sit around and think of ways to become nerdier, or does it just come naturally?
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Ok. This post as it reads is very inflaming and plainly reads as a personal attack. As this is a battletech board and as battletech is a scifi game the very basis of this board is very as you put it: nerdy. That is the whole point of this board. We are here to share, debate, and propose things about battletech from game play and mechanics to weapon systems and designs. You are welcome to your opinion but please refrain from posting such harsh statements as that above again. They are unwelcome here.
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On 2007-02-01 12:38, tom kazansky wrote:
Hey my last post was stone-cold serious, chump change. Is it your habit to slander all new people?
By the way most of your designs I've seen seem a bit subpar, to put it nicely. And that is not slander, because it is true.
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Chump change? That very statement has every sign and feel of being a personal attack. This is twice in one topic in which you have made a post that very much appears to be a personal attack. As such i refer you to the mordel bar and grill post policy section. Specifically article 1 and 2 of the policy: #1 Personal attacks of any sort will not be tolerated. #2 Posts that flame individuals, either by name or inference, will not be tolerated. Consider this your official warning. If you have an issue with someone, act like a reasonable adult and debate the issue calmly or take it to personal messages. We here at mordel's, especially the moderating staff, are serious about maintaining a friendly, lively, and warm environment without over reacting like many boards tend to do. We, however, do not tolerate new entities to this board or even old entities disrupting the balance. You will be treated as you treat others; Respect of others views will in turn result in respect of you and your views.
As for your opinion of designs and their performance, you will find quickly that we here at mordel's do not operate on the same basis as most. We consider designs most often from the angle campaigns and how it fits into the universe. This means that fluff text [the overview text describing the purpose and reason for the design if you do not know what fluff is] will often weigh more heavily then a designs battlefield performance: both one on one or one shot games or campaign games. Likewise, we tend to look at designs from a faction and campaign point of view. Meaning that even if a design is optimized to near perfection if it does not fit the standard operational style of the owning faction or fit the universe in general it will be criticized. We like personality and well written fluff over how maximized a design is and how it performs in duels. This does not mean, however, that we completely ignore dueling designs. Likewise, we do not ignore mini-maxed energy boat, pulse boat, alpha strikers, ect designs, we just tend to find them boring and lacking and life. Such designs just need to be posted as such and expected to be given moderate opinions.
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On 2007-02-01 20:14, tom kazansky wrote:
Well I was responding to Stinger's post, so wouldn't it be logical that I was talking to him? (That means I was talking to Stinger by the way)
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Just a note: not everyone views the board in threaded format. Many view it in flat format, which means that unless you quote the other persons text. they will have no idea who you are talking too.
We welcome you to Mordel's. We just ask that you obey some basic rules of communication while at our fine establishment.
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one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
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SaberDance
Federated Suns
Colonel
Joined: 07-May-2004 00:00
Posts: 837
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| Posted: 01-Feb-2007 22:02 Post subject: RE: Would Sonic weapons work in BT? |
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On 2007-01-31 22:37, Karagin wrote:
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On 2007-01-31 21:30, CO_17thRecon wrote:
Well, what are we talking about here? Sonic weapons for disabling personnel? That could work.
If you mean something for breaking down non-living material, it would seem unlikely.
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I was thinking more along the idea that a sonic wave causing metal to become brittle or something like that, maybe ultrasonic or something would be a better name...
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PPCs shoot beta-particles that impact the armor, sandblasting it to make it brittle and fall apart (at least on one theory).
Sonic guns fire a concentrated burst of sonic energy which impacts the armor, sandblasting it, and making it brittle so it falls apart.
So I'd think it would be some kind of PPC like weapon. Maybe with a damage of 8, heat 1, range 10, and doesn't work in vacuum.
So it would be like an underpowered PPC, but still better than a LarLas.
I don't know. As I think about this it doesn't sound as bad.
I was imagining something that would do 10 damage, 2 heat, range 30, no Min, but I think a sonic gun would have to be close range. The wave would disipate over too much distance.
Maybe over distance it could do much less damage (say, 3) but to any three adjacent hexes...
And maybe it could hit anything in a row out to 10 hexes...
OK, now we're back to Clan ERPPC territory...
_________________
"Politics is the Art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, misdiagnosing the problem, and applying the wrong solution."
-Groucho Marx
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House Calderon 1
Federated Suns
Command Sergeant-Major
Joined: 03-Feb-2006 00:00
Posts: 156
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Feb-2007 23:21 Post subject: RE: Would Sonic weapons work in BT? |
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Thank You Vagabond for your timely moderator interdiction. I must say that for a person with only 5 posts to the site, and 4 of them in this particular thread, and all condescending and negative, I am not impressed.
I am glad to have seen a moderator post in reply and minister proper warnings (this isn't to say y'all don't normally) in a timely fashion.
Thank You again.
HC1
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 RAVENS
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 02-Feb-2007 04:52 Post subject: RE: Would Sonic weapons work in BT? |
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Quote:
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On 2007-02-01 22:02, SaberDance wrote:
...
Maybe over distance it could do much less damage (say, 3) but to any three adjacent hexes...
And maybe it could hit anything in a row out to 10 hexes...
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Be careful with those area effects. Just remember that each hex is actually 30 m/100 feet across. Can you imagine how big and powerful would the weapon be to affect whole area with damage similar to the PPC blast, which is concentrated on single spot? The 'Mechs are actually as high as a half of the hex, smaller than 1:72 soldier and this mostrosity would require something bigger IMO...
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The dragon NEVER sleeps!
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 02-Feb-2007 19:06 Post subject: RE: Would Sonic weapons work in BT? |
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Going off of that then a big damage short ranged weapon could work for the game, but treads in to the AC25 or AC30 line of thinking...
Let me dig up my examples of the sonic weapons and i will post them.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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SaberDance
Federated Suns
Colonel
Joined: 07-May-2004 00:00
Posts: 837
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| Posted: 02-Feb-2007 19:28 Post subject: RE: Would Sonic weapons work in BT? |
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Quote:
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On 2007-02-02 04:52, Sleeping Dragon wrote:
Quote:
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On 2007-02-01 22:02, SaberDance wrote:
...
Maybe over distance it could do much less damage (say, 3) but to any three adjacent hexes...
And maybe it could hit anything in a row out to 10 hexes...
...
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Be careful with those area effects. Just remember that each hex is actually 30 m/100 feet across. Can you imagine how big and powerful would the weapon be to affect whole area with damage similar to the PPC blast, which is concentrated on single spot? The 'Mechs are actually as high as a half of the hex, smaller than 1:72 soldier and this mostrosity would require something bigger IMO...
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I'm just thinking of the way sound works.
We can directional sound, but sonic weapons also work on degree sweeps. We've got doohickies on some of our destroyers that focus all the power down a singe degree. We've got some weapons in development that can hit everything in a 180 degree arc.
And sound waves aren't blocked by walls. If any part of the sound wave goes over, under, or around the object it reforms the wave on the other side.
Now, at close range, where the wave wouldn't have time to spread we could add an echo factor.
Ignore the minimum range at your peril. Sometimes, the blast comes back...
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"Politics is the Art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, misdiagnosing the problem, and applying the wrong solution."
-Groucho Marx
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WhizzbangThePowerSquig
Royal Black Watch Regiment
Master Sergeant
Joined: 21-Mar-2005 00:00
Posts: 345
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 02-Feb-2007 21:42 Post subject: RE: Would Sonic weapons work in BT? |
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Also take into account firing such a weapon underwater. the accoustic properties of water are much different than those of air.
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All fear Squiggy!
"I've never seen anything this beautiful in the entire galaxy - okay, give me the bomb." - Ultra Magnus
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 03-Feb-2007 04:03 Post subject: RE: Would Sonic weapons work in BT? |
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Actually I think that the damage would be distributed around the 'Mech in clusters, just like the LRMs. With the nature of the weapon it makes more sense to me.
What about this?
10t weapon taking 5 crits, doing 20 damage in 5 point clusters and producing 5 heat, range 2/4/6. Energy weapon, but it can't be used underwater. Due to the nature of the weapon it's hard not to hit with it (-2 to hit), but it can't benefit from the targeting computers.
Usable? Too powerful / too weak? Thoughts?
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The dragon NEVER sleeps!
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Storm
Draconis Combine
Chu-i
Joined: 06-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 278
Location: United States
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| Posted: 03-Feb-2007 12:33 Post subject: RE: Would Sonic weapons work in BT? |
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I think I read in one of the novels where some peacekeeping forces (Eridani Light Horse Infantry, if I remember) used sonic stunners to break up a crowd.
But on 'mechs and vehicles? If I wanted non-lethal, I'd go with sticky ammo. It's a rapid-hardening foam, also under development today.
Personally, I like Gauss Rifles.
and of course . . .
Orbital Bombardment.
Storm
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Storm  "The More that thou sweatest and swearest in training, the less thou bleedest and diest in combat."--Dick Marcinko
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House Calderon 1
Federated Suns
Command Sergeant-Major
Joined: 03-Feb-2006 00:00
Posts: 156
Location: United States
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| Posted: 03-Feb-2007 12:49 Post subject: RE: Would Sonic weapons work in BT? |
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On 2007-02-03 04:03, Sleeping Dragon wrote:
Actually I think that the damage would be distributed around the 'Mech in clusters, just like the LRMs. With the nature of the weapon it makes more sense to me.
What about this?
10t weapon taking 5 crits, doing 20 damage in 5 point clusters and producing 5 heat, range 2/4/6. Energy weapon, but it can't be used underwater. Due to the nature of the weapon it's hard not to hit with it (-2 to hit), but it can't benefit from the targeting computers.
Usable? Too powerful / too weak? Thoughts?
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Definitely usable there SD. But I disagree about the lack of use underwater. Think about the medium differences. Anything usable in air usually has even greater transmission rates and impact under water. I've used sonic cleaning machines (large scale) before and you don't want to put your had inside when in operation. I would think that the range would double underwater, but not the damage. Helps keep the balance and gives blue water naval craft a weapon that is more effective for them than anyone else. Might need to up the heat on it though. Sonic machinery gets warm very fast.
Later,
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SaberDance
Federated Suns
Colonel
Joined: 07-May-2004 00:00
Posts: 837
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| Posted: 03-Feb-2007 13:04 Post subject: RE: Would Sonic weapons work in BT? |
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Of course the minute you use it under water the Friends of Solaris are gonna come open up a can of gause-rifle on you for killing a few whales accidentally...
_________________
"Politics is the Art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, misdiagnosing the problem, and applying the wrong solution."
-Groucho Marx
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