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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5724
Location: United States
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 Posted: 26-Dec-2007 03:37 Post subject: the flipping tanks discussion got me thinking again... |
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about the rules in maxtech for hand-held weapons.
what is the common opinion of everyone present on this at this time?
after we have a few opinions posted, i wanna move on to discuss rule changes or creation.
my opinion is that i have always been enthralled by this idea even to the point of expanding upon them for things like armor packs and the macross FAST Packs for LAMs.
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 26-Dec-2007 04:08 Post subject: the flipping tanks discussion got me thinking again... |
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I never liked them. I perceive 'Mechs as clumsy machines able to manipulate things, but lacking the finesse to use weapons this way effectively. 'Mechs are titans of destruction, not over-sized foot troopers 
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 26-Dec-2007 05:14 Post subject: Re: the flipping tanks discussion got me thinking again... |
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| Sleeping Dragon wrote: | | I never liked them. I perceive 'Mechs as clumsy machines able to manipulate things, but lacking the finesse to use weapons this way effectively. 'Mechs are titans of destruction, not over-sized foot troopers |
I agree. This is Battletech, not Robotech or Gundam.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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AWAD
Draconis Combine
Chu-sa
Joined: 06-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 766
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| Posted: 26-Dec-2007 05:45 Post subject: Re: the flipping tanks discussion got me thinking again... |
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In the old 3025 fluff did the Wolverine have a detachable AC/5/
Also in old rules if you had a hand actuator and also a weapon, if you lost that hand you could not fire the weapon.
AWAD- this cryllic keyboard is driving me nuts
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
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Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 26-Dec-2007 12:26 Post subject: Re: the flipping tanks discussion got me thinking again... |
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These pictures were also taken from Robotech, but their Phoenix variants already lack these features...
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Rarich
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 991
Location: United States
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| Posted: 28-Dec-2007 06:02 Post subject: the flipping tanks discussion got me thinking again... |
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A single chop with an axe or (maybe) mace would be okay. Those are brutal high mass 1 shot weapons that fit the mech. Elegant move with a sword or dexrterous use of claws...... I find that suspect.
Chopping trees is fine, being able to remove the limbs is not.
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
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Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 28-Dec-2007 06:58 Post subject: the flipping tanks discussion got me thinking again... |
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All close contact lvl 2 weapons on 'Mechs do damage through brute force of the impact. The 'sword' is just an overgrown cleaver IMO. I never perceived claws as anything that needs finesse to use because technically it's only an over-sized hand that is used to grab (and hold) the enemy.
Hmm, a claw equipped 'Mech should have a bonus to flip tanks. Just a small return to the topic that spawned this...
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 29-Dec-2007 22:49 Post subject: the flipping tanks discussion got me thinking again... |
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i think people are misunderstanding the hand held weapons i am referring too.
i mean the maxtech rules that allowed a weapon[s] to be held up to 10 percent of the units weight [20 with active TSM] and considered as external cargo for speed penalties.
the rules were like a mix of vehicle and turret construction.
so a 50t mech could carry a hand-held medium laser with 3 heat sinks covered by 1t of armor = 5t of cargo.
i don't mean glaives or swords.
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 30-Dec-2007 00:20 Post subject: the flipping tanks discussion got me thinking again... |
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And my point still stands this is Battletech. Not Robotech. How is the hand held weapon getting power to fire if it's an energy weapon?
And using the old Wolverine as an example, how do you reload the Autocannon since you are carrying the spare clip in the other hand.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Rarich
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 31-Dec-2007 20:43 Post subject: the flipping tanks discussion got me thinking again... |
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Okay, I would only permit non-power using weapons like Missiles, AC's and such. -2 on hits due to having to trigger the weapon with one of the fingers on the hand, and the necessarily "clumsier" targeting interface.
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
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Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 01-Jan-2008 03:26 Post subject: the flipping tanks discussion got me thinking again... |
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The weapons are linked to 'Mech's power circuit, just like the PPC on old Battlemaster...
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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| Posted: 01-Jan-2008 17:02 Post subject: the flipping tanks discussion got me thinking again... |
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The Old Battlemaster had the gun built into the arm...remember fluff and artwork didn't matter then or now for the game mechanics.
If you want to play that way then mechs like the Hunchback and Stigners can't do torso twists since they aren't built for it.
And then add in the editors note from the original TRO3025 from the Jenner about it being to top heavy...
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
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Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 02-Jan-2008 02:22 Post subject: the flipping tanks discussion got me thinking again... |
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Technically it's possible to remove the PPC from the Battlemaster with some armour and then you may build it again with a hand-held gun. Stingers, Phoenix Hawks and Wolverines are the other candidates. The armour is spread between two locations, but you gain some extra versatility...
This is a way around various restrictions, but it at least seems useful to me (Not that I like it anyway.)
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cain
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
Lieutenant
Joined: 10-May-2004 00:00
Posts: 329
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 03-Jan-2008 08:30 Post subject: the flipping tanks discussion got me thinking again... |
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I think i remember seeing somewhere that the hand held weapons where just held in place by the hand and where connected to the Mech as normal weapons with the exception that they could be jettisoned and then the Mech could use its fist as normal there was no over sized trigger or anything like that
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