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jymset
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 Posted: 28-May-2002 07:42 Post subject: Overheating with 3025: A problem? |
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Well, after posting the thread on my games, and after some of the recent discussions, this seemed like a good topic.
It struck me as weird that a lvl 2 design with DHS capable of dissipating 30-40 heat in one round would be called in-efficient for overheating, what, by ca 4 after an alpha-strike!!!
I play mostly lvl 1. I NEVER had a problem with overheating. I once blew up a Marauder very, very early in my gaming-carreer, but even at that stage, it was more for fun-reasons than any real problems.
I find that mostly, mechs fit in one of four categories:
1. The totally heat-efficient. Yes, even these exist prominently in 3025! Typically light 'mechs: Stinger, Wasp, Locust, etc... Some other prominent examples: Shadowhawk, Wolverine, Grasshopper, Zeus, Banshee. Especially the first and the last are so over-the-top that this is starting to pose a problem as they're left with insignificant offensive power.
2. The 'mechs with distinct weapon-groupings. These are more common than a lot of people would believe. And are just as easy to play with as the above. It has two sub-categories: Groupings of range, and groupings of time. Bear with me. The first is easily explained. Two great examples are: Missile boats (Whitworth, Trebuchet, Dervish, Catapult) and the Stalker. They can either fire their short-range weapons or their long-range weapons, usually without overheating more than 4. Makes them VERY simple to use and utterly deadly (the Stalker is definitely a good example! Which fool would alpha-strike with this one?!? But by calculating that in, the BV is laughably cheap. This 'mech is traded as one of the deadliest in my group of friends, and rightly so). With grouping of time I mean some of the more obvious examples of 'mechs carrying weapons that can be well-used by simple alternation of firing-pattern. To bear: Marauder and Awesome. The latter is famous for this pattern of PPC fire: 3-3-2, no heat-modifier at any stage. But a thing less commonly realised is that the Marauder is just as clever a design. IMO the better fire-support machine! Faster, with 2 ML as close-range back-up, better looking. And realise: Fire 2 PPCs and 1 AC5 one turn, and 1 PPC and the AC the next turn. OK, for one turn you'll be at -1 MP. That is why it is more of a fire-support 'mech than a MBM.
3) The next group I hardly ever play. It compensates for too much heat by great (jumping) movement. Can't think of too many, it was just an augmentation: The Jenner is the main example. Others? Maybe the Fire-Starter and the ML-Vulcan? Basically the strategy: Fire everything, don't shut-down, jump into safety. Not very honourable, glorious, and yes, fun.
4) The last group is the one that is most rewarding to play (if played appropriately): The overheaters. The ones that can't even fire their one main weapons group without over-heating. Here it is a question of choice, of playing style. The one advantage these have, is their powerful armament. Most of these will be able to out-gun their opponent. Constant fiddling will be needed to use these, which usually means firing only a fraction of all weapons. Though seemingly un-rewarding it can be a hellish amount of fun. Some that I enjoy: Rifleman (this actually distinctly falls into category 2: Fire 2 ACs and 1 LL, no heat problems at all. Powerful fire-support 'mech at a cheap cost....but once the ammo runs out.....well, no more explosions, but now definitely category 4), Cyclops. Some that I don't enjoy: Griffin (and oh, yes, this HAS to be my Mechforce 'mech) and Warhammer. We could have endless discussions about this group, but the bottom-line is: Taste.
And once we get into lvl2, heat shouldn't even be a factor any more (unless you're thinking of Blackhawk, Loki or Masakari).
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"Rear armour is defeatist!" - unknown Kuritan Mechwarrior
The AC5 is a great gun!
On heat, 3025 style:
A Rifleman knows no heat.
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Sir Henry
Team Bansai
Senior Tech Specialist
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| Posted: 28-May-2002 08:02 Post subject: Overheating with 3025: A problem? |
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Spider is another #3. It only has 2 ML for weaponry. Can't overheat with that....
I prefer #1 or #4.
Sir HEnry
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
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| Posted: 28-May-2002 08:30 Post subject: Overheating with 3025: A problem? |
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I love all the level 1 mechs...each has character. None of this "cookie cutter" mentality found in the later designs.
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
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| Posted: 28-May-2002 08:39 Post subject: Overheating with 3025: A problem? |
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Use the machines properly, you won`t overheat very badly. Some do require careful thinking in order to be effective, but that makes the game more rewarding to me. I`m not a big fan of the fire-it-all-for-no-heat designs just because, where is the skill?
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Rarich
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 28-May-2002 08:40 Post subject: Overheating with 3025: A problem? |
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I always liked the mechs with firepower and heat scaled for range.
the stalker is a good mech with multiple ranges, keep them in mind and you do not overheat. Most of the mechs I design use that strategy too.
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Pinhead
The Bloody Clans
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| Posted: 28-May-2002 08:49 Post subject: Overheating with 3025: A problem? |
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Heat is not important....
Until you pass that magical number 13 (or is it 14)
Then it is only marginally important depending on the weapon mix of your mech.
Pin
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jymset
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| Posted: 28-May-2002 08:56 Post subject: Overheating with 3025: A problem? |
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Two clarifications on my note #3:
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Fire everything, don't shut-down, jump into safety.
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What I meant is that these 'mechs ARE hot. Not hot enough to shut-down in one turn, but hot nevertheless. Hence the Jenner. The Spider does not qualify, it would fall into category 1.
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Not very honourable, glorious, and yes, fun.
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What I meant was that they are NOT fun. Bad English, I'm sorry.
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"Rear armour is defeatist!" - unknown Kuritan Mechwarrior
The AC5 is a great gun!
On heat, 3025 style:
A Rifleman knows no heat.
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
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| Posted: 28-May-2002 08:57 Post subject: Overheating with 3025: A problem? |
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12 is the magic number to me, although 17 isn't bad as long as you can roll 4+ 
12.... (-2)/+1
13.... (-2)/+2
14.... (-2)/+2/S4+
15/6.. (-3)/+2/s4+
17.... (-3)/+3/S4+
At 18 the shutdown roll is 6+, and seen way too many fail that to even consider it except under the most extreme circumstances.
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Talen
Capellan Confederation
Sang-shao
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| Posted: 28-May-2002 09:31 Post subject: Overheating with 3025: A problem? |
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Playing is so far inbetween right now that its hard to say what I prefer. I look at the 'mechs I make, and I see a usual trend. I like to design heavy hitters, but also heat efficient 'mechs. What I usually do is configure the primary weapon to be heat effiecent. That means it has the whole group 1 that can fire all the time and not push the heat limit. Then any other weapons are most likely a different range setup and would push the heat should they be used as well. Most of my designs are L2, though, so heat isnt usually an issue.
I guess my favorite is the one that carries the weapons, can only fire a few safely, but you can push the envelope an do a buttload of damage, at the cost of heat...
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chihawk
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| Posted: 28-May-2002 09:38 Post subject: Overheating with 3025: A problem? |
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One of the most heat efficient mechs is the PTR-4D Penetrator. 2 ERLL and 6MPL, with 12 double heat sinks. Both Hardware and Mordel run these mechs incredible well, picking the right time to fire an ERLL at close range perfectly.
I'd say that it's one of the best mechs in the game...
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Pinhead
The Bloody Clans
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| Posted: 28-May-2002 11:14 Post subject: Overheating with 3025: A problem? |
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In Darryl's King of the Hill Game I used to design my mechs with 2 overlapping range fields.
I liked Large Lasers and medium lasers and set the number of each lasers to be about what I could cool on their optimal range..
Say 3 Large lasers 24 heatsinks and 8 medium lasers
That way in the middle ranges, I could decide exactly what I wanted to do, and it gave me the flexibility to overheat anytime I wanted to. By the way, the biggest problem I've seen with heat in 3025 is that people don't track it correctly, or not at all. It has been more than once that someone has fired say 2 PPCs, an AC5 and 2 MLasers at me with 18 heat sinks and then claimed to only be at 1 heat.
Pin
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
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| Posted: 28-May-2002 12:44 Post subject: Overheating with 3025: A problem? |
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I voted yes. The heat scale was good at balancing out game mechanics, but I never really liked that it was used in such a way.
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Gangrene
[ This Message was edited by: Gangrene on 2002-05-28 12:54 ]
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chihawk
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| Posted: 28-May-2002 13:06 Post subject: Overheating with 3025: A problem? |
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Quote:
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On 2002-05-28 11:14, Pinhead wrote:
By the way, the biggest problem I've seen with heat in 3025 is that people don't track it correctly, or not at all...
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Which is why we play "open sheet" at conventions--too many people not countinmg heat correctly.
I will say that very few do it on purpose, I think it's that they don't have to do it in the game they normally play or assume their heat sinks are doubles when they are singles. Everyone makes mistakes so we try and avoid the "finger pointing".
But we usually can pick up the cheaters real quick...they're the ones that don't want you to see their heat or will actually argue that their heat is correct when even under a cursory check can't be.
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Talen
Capellan Confederation
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| Posted: 28-May-2002 13:28 Post subject: Overheating with 3025: A problem? |
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I remember in my game with GG one of us (prolly me) forgot to keep track of heat on one of the 'mechs. Thankfully it was a "cool" 'mech and nothing needed to be taken care of. That also happened to be the 'mech I forgot to keep track of ammo on. But as the game only lasted 10-15 rounds I dont think I ate through 20 LB-10x shots...
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chihawk
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| Posted: 28-May-2002 13:35 Post subject: Overheating with 3025: A problem? |
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See, proves my point
You weren't cheating so to me it's just a mistake. You fix it if you can, and move on to enjoy the game.
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