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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
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Location: Czech Republic
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 Posted: 08-May-2013 18:46 Post subject: Fuel Cell |
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Am I missing something, like explosive side effect or additional critical space, or is fuel cell engine the best thing after holes in cheese for vehicle construction? Mostly they are way better than fusion engine (lighter and cheaper) in terms of weight. Aside from the fact that you need to deal with additional heat sinks for energy weapons and that vehicle can go only for 450 Km rather than 600 Km I can't really see any disadvantages. Where can I find the cost for CV fuel cells?
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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| Posted: 09-May-2013 01:58 Post subject: Fuel Cell |
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TacOps pg. 407
| wrote: | | Combat Vehicle Fuel Cell IS/Clan D/C-D-D (3,500xERxTT)÷75 |
TW pg. 126
| wrote: | Fuel Cell Engines: Like ICE-equipped ’Mechs, engine hits on fuel cell engines do not generate additional heat. Instead, roll to see if the damage causes an uncontrolled combination of reactants that results in an explosion, destroying the unit. The rules for ICE explosions above apply to engine explosion rolls for
fuel cell engines. |
| wrote: | | ICE: Engine critical hits on ICE-equipped ’Mechs do not generate additional heat. Instead, the ´Mech’s controlling player makes a 2D6 roll to see if the engine explodes, at the end of the phase in which its ICE is hit. Apply a +3 modifi er to the target number if this is the second hit, or +6 if this is the third such hit. On a result of 10 or greater, the engine explodes, destroying the unit. For purposes of game play, three or more internal-combustion engine hits destroy the ’Mech, regardless of whether or not the engine explodes. An ICE explosion destroys the ’Mech but has no effect on other units. |
and as you already said:
TechMan pg. 68
| wrote: | Fuel
IndustrialMech ICEs provide a base range of 600 kilometers, or 20,000 Walking MP. IndustrialMech Fuel Cell engines provide for a base 450-kilometer range, or 15,000 Walking MP. These fuel capacities are considered integral to the engine and so do not cost any additional weight or occupy any additional critical slots in the IndustrialMech’s Critical Hit Table.
Additional fuel tanks (see p. 244) can expand these ranges, but
will cost tonnage and occupy slots. |
Fyi, Fuel Tanks are weight/crit = (Engine Weight*0.1) per 450 km range. They explode if not empty for 20 ammo bin damage.
On the whole though, Fuel Cells are the cats meow if you are not gonna mount anything more than a single SPL or SL. Energy heavy units should use Fusion. Ballistic/Missile only should go Fuel Cell. And honestly, the explosion chance on a vehicle is not that big of a thing given the critical hit results on vehicles anyway; a single engine hit will immobilize a tank. Interestingly, vehicles with ICE and other explosive engine types do not check for explosion on an engine criticval. I guess this may be do to the fact that in mechs the fuel tank is part of the 6 engine critical but in vehicles its a separate crit that blows the vehicle automatically.
Anyway, there you go.
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
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Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 09-May-2013 15:43 Post subject: Fuel Cell |
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Thanks! New rules are all fine, but the indexes are far from perfect + the rules are somewhat counter-intuitively placed.
I don't consider fuel cell use for anything but vehicles, but for those the fuel cell is ridiculously good compared to the other options when you consider performance:cost ratio. Fusion engine is only better if you can't do without energy weapons, but otherwise it's just plain better.
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Vagabond
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| Posted: 10-May-2013 07:39 Post subject: Re: Fuel Cell |
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| Sleeping Dragon wrote: | Thanks! New rules are all fine, but the indexes are far from perfect + the rules are somewhat counter-intuitively placed.
I don't consider fuel cell use for anything but vehicles, but for those the fuel cell is ridiculously good compared to the other options when you consider performance:cost ratio. Fusion engine is only better if you can't do without energy weapons, but otherwise it's just plain better. |
yup
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
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| Posted: 10-May-2013 15:24 Post subject: Re: Fuel Cell |
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It kinda sucks when things are almost no-brainer like whether to go DHS or not when you can.
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Vagabond
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| Posted: 11-May-2013 00:47 Post subject: Fuel Cell |
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i see your point, but do not fully agree on this one.
i dunno if its because we used to default to ICE if Fusion was not appropriate or if it is the nature of the engine or what. But, I don't feel like it is the new default simply because it is op.
I feel like it more the new default as the ICE has simply been rendered obsolete. I would still debate using this or a fusion engine. ICE is now like fission or electric engines... used for flavor.
It honestly doesn't bother me. On most of my customs, I'd have saved up to maybe 4 tons by using this rather than a fusion. Not enough as to seriously go... hmmm, gonna put a medium laser or two here and not consider a fusion instead.
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
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Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 11-May-2013 13:02 Post subject: Fuel Cell |
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I don't see it as OP, but rather as way too optimal to ignore. It's still dirty cheap and allows the tanks to be more competitive. That's why I compared it to DHS. They pushed the bar higher and rendered SHS to vehicles/old machine stuff/curiosity. I just think that they needed some catch to make things interesting from design point of view.
EDIT: Just to demonstrate what I'm talking about, let's take basic Vedette. A classic. Now with fuel cell you cut down 25 ton ICE engine to mere 15 tons. That's TEN friggen tons! You can easily double that tank's armament with that. That's no small improvement, but a major leap forward.
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jymset
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| Posted: 11-May-2013 18:25 Post subject: Fuel Cell |
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There's a Vedette with exactly that upgrade in RS: 3085 Old is the new New. Carries an LB-10X.
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Sleeping Dragon
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| Posted: 11-May-2013 19:24 Post subject: Fuel Cell |
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Exactly, although double UAC/5 could be more interesting 
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Vagabond
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