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Havoc~Ronin
Federated Suns
Major
Joined: 13-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 427
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 Posted: 17-Feb-2004 12:07 Post subject: My Warship Rant!!! |
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Ok, can someone explain this one to me. Prior to the Clan invasion, none of the Houses of the Inner Sphere had warships and any attempts at to acquire a relic was quickly destroyed by Comstar. Jumpships, dropships, passenger liners and cargo haulers were the "only game in town".
Then the clans thundered in with warships and such. Yet they were the only ones to have these. I assume that Comstar had a few hidden away somewhere, but nothing to equal what the Inner Sphere acquired during the next 5 to 10 years. Even if the sudden appearance of facilities capable of building warships did occur (doubtful), the logistical requirements to build a warship would be huge, especially when the Commonwealth and Kurita were trying to rebuild their respective armed forces. One just does not build a warship within a month.
So, this is my rant. If anyone can shed some light on this or even prove me wrong, I would appreciate it.
Thanks for listening.
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Stinger
The Knights of Chaos
General
Joined: 30-Apr-2002 00:00
Posts: 1833
Location: United States
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| Posted: 17-Feb-2004 12:20 Post subject: RE: My Warship Rant!!! |
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Well I seem to remember Laio finding 2 to 5 Star league bases (to which I think that Davion and would have gladly said "All your base are belong to us"  ). I think Kurita found 1 or 2. And I think that both of them found a warship factory IIRC. I am sure someone will have better info on that.
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Stinger
If it's "creepy" to use the Internet, military satellites, and robot aircraft to find a house full of gorgeous young models so I can drop in on them unexpected, then FINE, I'm "creepy". Howard Wolowitz. BBT.
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Oafman
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 18-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1657
Location: United States
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| Posted: 17-Feb-2004 12:41 Post subject: RE: My Warship Rant!!! |
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the magic of required plot twists. Simple as that. Someone at FASA probably wanted to start playing with warships so they came up with something just flimsy enough to allow them to have warships. As to the 'real' reason, I havn't a clue.
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Festina Lente!
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Rarich
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 991
Location: United States
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| Posted: 17-Feb-2004 13:36 Post subject: RE: My Warship Rant!!! |
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Davion had abandoned production lines at Galax Yards. I says so in the House source book, and there were warships produced there according to the 2750 TRO. I do not remember off the top of my head where the other Yards were.
It appearts that it takes 5 to 10 years (5 years to build Galax during late SL, 10 years for one of the Kurita yards) to get a ship production center built and going. According to my digging thru fluff. Doing the Circus campaign required some research to see how long it would take to build such stuff.
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Duct tape is like the force. It has a light side & a dark side, and strings also lie under it all.
Life is a sexually transmitted terminal disease.
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Storm
Draconis Combine
Chu-i
Joined: 06-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 278
Location: United States
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| Posted: 17-Feb-2004 14:02 Post subject: It's Called . . . . |
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"Suspended Belief."
or as Orwell would say in 1984, doublethink.
We simply ignore the logistics to enjoy the story and the game.
And that's how FASA (may they rest in Peace, barring Stackpole and Nystul) did it.
Personally, I never really cared for warships. I'm into 'mechs and groundpounding, not be-bopping around in space.
Besides, the lag time in jumps is boring as all get-out.
Now here's my question: How would a merc unit (even a top notch one) go about acquiring a warship?
Storm
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Storm  "The More that thou sweatest and swearest in training, the less thou bleedest and diest in combat."--Dick Marcinko
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Oafman
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 18-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1657
Location: United States
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| Posted: 17-Feb-2004 15:18 Post subject: RE: It's Called . . . . |
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Through blackmail, miracles, and about 3 years of improbables.
(you land on a backwater planet and fond.... da da da DAAAA a mint condition star league warship!!!)
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-Mud
ex-Jade Falcon
Bounty Hunter
Joined: 04-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1082
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| Posted: 17-Feb-2004 15:22 Post subject: RE: My Warship Rant!!! |
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Quote:
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On 2004-02-17 13:36, Rarich wrote:
Davion had abandoned production lines at Galax Yards. I says so in the House source book, and there were warships produced there according to the 2750 TRO. I do not remember off the top of my head where the other Yards were.
It appearts that it takes 5 to 10 years (5 years to build Galax during late SL, 10 years for one of the Kurita yards) to get a ship production center built and going. According to my digging thru fluff. Doing the Circus campaign required some research to see how long it would take to build such stuff.
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Well if the Davion field book says so, it must be true; they could not even get the typos out of that sloppy book. I think it's kind of funny all of the "abandoned" shipyards that "just so happened" to be lying around. As was already stated, the magic of convenient plot twists. I like warships, but I don't think the Houses have the resources to produce them; only Comstar and the Clans have 'em.
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Gunslinger Patch
Royal Black Watch Regiment
Major
Joined: 04-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 1611
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| Posted: 17-Feb-2004 21:08 Post subject: RE: My Warship Rant!!! |
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Warships might be nice once in a while, found at big important places where our roleplaying campaigns will very likely not be doing any fighting. But to have real by gosh navies out there would be bad. So having the fluff say it is really hard to build them in any kind of numbers is a good thing.
If you were irked to see so many units bite the dust during the civil war. Think about how many regiments could get wiped out totally if there's squadrons of warships running all over the place. If you like the Kell Hounds, how would you like to see a heavy cruiser take out a whole kell hounds regiment with no survivors before it ever even makes it into orbit?
On the other hand, do you like your clan cluster? Same problem, it can't survive meeting a warship.
If you are playing a house unit, you could rig it so the mechs survive because no matter how many dropships a house unit sees blown away by a warship "high command" can just send your players another one.
But for a Merc unit, losing the dropship could easily be a death blow, that thing costs more than all the mechs and tanks put together. Merc campaigns only want to see a warship when it is covering their approach or rushing off to fight the other sides warship so the Mercs can land without being seriously fired on by anything but fighters and other dropships. They don't ever want their dropships fired on by a warship.
Nah, if you're doing something huge, like invading New Avalon, bring the warships in. But if you're doing something like an ordinary company or battalion size campaign, a warship is something heard of but rarely if ever seen.
Even aerospace fighters are not often seen once the mechs are on the ground. We want to fight mecho a mecho, not get strafed by a fast moving blur passing by overhead. Or get wiped out by a naval bombardment, that stuff is for the novels, not the tabletop.
Even in the novels, they had to rig the big space battle at New Avalon so that the warships never got to take out the ground units before they could land. What if the loyalist warships had gone after the troopships. Blow away a couple of Overlords and Victor's chances of victory just shrank a lot.
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-Mud
ex-Jade Falcon
Bounty Hunter
Joined: 04-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1082
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| Posted: 17-Feb-2004 21:35 Post subject: RE: My Warship Rant!!! |
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Quote:
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On 2004-02-17 21:08, Gunslinger Patch wrote:
If you are playing a house unit, you could rig it so the mechs survive because no matter how many dropships a house unit sees blown away by a warship "high command" can just send your players another one.
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What house do you work for! The houses cannot afford to attach dropships to their regular units except for raids and invasions. They might have enough lift capability to lift one out of four of the total 'mechs in their total armed forces...if all of their dropships are up and running and not grounded with the technical difficulties which inevitably accompany 300 year old pieces of advanced equipment. Make no mistake...getting the regimental dropship destroyed is grounds for court martial.
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ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
Colonel
Joined: 18-Aug-2003 00:00
Posts: 2021
Location: United States
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| Posted: 18-Feb-2004 00:02 Post subject: RE: My Warship Rant!!! |
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Ok, heres my take on it. As of 3060 and the Smokem Jagum Offensive, only Davion and Kurita had built any warships, and nothing bigger than a Frigate...and those were very few. Now, while Jumpship drives are hard to come by, the orbital yards for making the rest of the ship wouldn't be so rare. It would take only a few months to convert one to a warship making facility. There ya go. Boom. Now assume that the houses started these projects as soon as the truce came down (viable assumption) There is a several year time lag until the offensive, enough to build a few warships if they had converted multiple yards to the task. The Task Force Serpent had 2 davion built corvettes, smallest warship, and a Kurita made Frigate...a medium ship. The rest were all comstar ships. Now I don't remember what warships were part of Bulldog, but still were mostly comstar built. It isnt as far fetched as one might think, and it's only stretched a little. It is plausible, and makes for a dang good story.
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Colonel Ralgith t'Mayasara
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company 'Ralgith's Renegades'
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js
Federated Suns
Sergeant-Major
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 125
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| Posted: 18-Feb-2004 10:25 Post subject: RE: My Warship Rant!!! |
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lol
You're making a common mistake - you're assuming that there is actually a connection between real world economics and economics in the BT universe. We would love it to be true, but fasa and now FP have repeatedly proven otherwise. (I myself prefer to think that the rediscovery of Star League technology has triggered an economic boom in the IS that has created the financial and technical resources to make oodles of new shipyards, 'Mech lines, etc. Unfortunately, we have a canon statement to the contrary.)
Anyway, look at the upside: we have new toys to play with (which is all the game is really about anyway).
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ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
Colonel
Joined: 18-Aug-2003 00:00
Posts: 2021
Location: United States
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| Posted: 18-Feb-2004 10:34 Post subject: RE: My Warship Rant!!! |
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Quote:
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On 2004-02-18 10:25, js wrote:
lol
You're making a common mistake - you're assuming that there is actually a connection between real world economics and economics in the BT universe. We would love it to be true, but fasa and now FP have repeatedly proven otherwise. (I myself prefer to think that the rediscovery of Star League technology has triggered an economic boom in the IS that has created the financial and technical resources to make oodles of new shipyards, 'Mech lines, etc. Unfortunately, we have a canon statement to the contrary.)
Anyway, look at the upside: we have new toys to play with (which is all the game is really about anyway).
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You go man 
But you do have a point. And it's a darn good game at that. Still, keep the warships on major campaigns, cause a little company sized unit would NOT be having a warship
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Colonel Ralgith t'Mayasara
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company 'Ralgith's Renegades'
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Havoc~Ronin
Federated Suns
Major
Joined: 13-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 427
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| Posted: 18-Feb-2004 11:36 Post subject: RE: My Warship Rant!!! |
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So, I wasn't smoking as bad a batch of crack as I thought I was. It seems that there are others who feel the same rage. (a la Macho Man)....
I too like warships in the novels and such. It does make for a good read. There nothing like the wanton destruction of two ships of the line hammering away at eacfh other as areospace fighters duel around them. I only wish they would have taken a moment, review where the story line was, look at the economic/logistical and historical situation that they created, and then preceed. But, that is my wishful thinking.
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-Mud
ex-Jade Falcon
Bounty Hunter
Joined: 04-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1082
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| Posted: 18-Feb-2004 14:33 Post subject: RE: My Warship Rant!!! |
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| good story, huh? If you are referring to the gross improbability of Davion and Kurita ever cooperating, and even moreso cooperating for the reclamation of planets for Kurita with no benefit to Davion...well, I'll just leave it at that.
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Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2039
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| Posted: 18-Feb-2004 17:32 Post subject: RE: My Warship Rant!!! |
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Quote:
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On 2004-02-17 21:08, Gunslinger Patch wrote:
Even in the novels, they had to rig the big space battle at New Avalon so that the warships never got to take out the ground units before they could land. What if the loyalist warships had gone after the troopships. Blow away a couple of Overlords and Victor's chances of victory just shrank a lot.
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IIRC, didn't one or two of the DropShips get blown away at New Avalon? Or was that at Tharkad?
Ruger
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