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Gunslinger Patch
Royal Black Watch Regiment
Major
Joined: 04-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 1611
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 Posted: 12-Apr-2002 03:40 Post subject: Comstar/WOB Level III unit TO&E |
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I've been working on creating a secret Word of Blake army lately. Basically, a secret faction within Toyama almost from the beginning established a planet way out in the periphery and has spent about 200 years moving people and equipment to there from Terra. So now they have secret factories and a secret army.
The thing is, I want to create their forces down to the last mech just because I can and I've hit a snag for Level III or battalion size units.
The Comstar sourcebook has a list of the greek letters that ID the mix of forces in their divisions. But every last one of those many greek letters is also used to ID the force mix for the CG/WOB Level III units too.
I think it would be fair to say an Level III Alpha unit is all mechs and a III Omega is 36 platoons of infantry with or without APCs. But what about the 22 freaking letters in between them? And let's not even get started on how an Alpha unit could be 36 assaults or 36 lights.
Did they just slap letters on to battalions at random or did FASA have a TO&E greek letter list for Level III units that was not in the Comstar Sourcebook? If there is one, somebody tell me about it. Because if there isn't I'll have to make one up.
And if everything they do is in 6's, why does that division list say every single kind of division has 39 aerospace fighters?
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Graduates of the Gunslinger Program are authorized to display the Gunslinger Patch on their uniforms and mechs along with any other recognised SLDF insignia.
[ This Message was edited by: Gunslinger Patch on 2002-04-12 03:41 ]
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"Those who beat their guns into plows will plow for those with guns..." -Thomas Jefferson
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Cadet
ComStar
Lieutenant, SG
Joined: 17-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 495
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| Posted: 12-Apr-2002 12:48 Post subject: Comstar/WOB Level III unit TO&E |
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It's just another one of those illogical little things that FASA did. Just don't think too much about it and estimate where in the Greek alphabet it would be.
And about the fighters, I really don't know.
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Vampire
Free Worlds League
Lieutenant Colonel
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 912
Location: Spain
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| Posted: 15-Apr-2002 13:16 Post subject: Comstar/WOB Level III unit TO&E |
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Quote:
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The thing is, I want to create their forces down to the last mech just because I can and I've hit a snag for Level III or battalion size units.
The Comstar sourcebook has a list of the greek letters that ID the mix of forces in their divisions. But every last one of those many greek letters is also used to ID the force mix for the CG/WOB Level III units too.
I think it would be fair to say an Level III Alpha unit is all mechs and a III Omega is 36 platoons of infantry with or without APCs. But what about the 22 freaking letters in between them? And let's not even get started on how an Alpha unit could be 36 assaults or 36 lights.
Did they just slap letters on to battalions at random or did FASA have a TO&E greek letter list for Level III units that was not in the Comstar Sourcebook? If there is one, somebody tell me about it. Because if there isn't I'll have to make one up.
And if everything they do is in 6's, why does that division list say every single kind of division has 39 aerospace fighters?
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I stumbled across this post. Honestly, I never tried to memorize the system, though it seems that with a little study you can learn the formulas and be able to tell the unit composition.
I think there was a description of the ComGuards TO&E in the 20 Year Update. I assume you are mentioning the Level IV table from the ComStar/WoB Field Manual, the Comstar Sourcebook doesn't have anything about the ComGuards structure.
The Tukkayyid sourcebook may be of help, as it has quite detailed order of battle listings.
Mmmm, I think you'll have to make up that table after all, but it shouldn't be too hard, you only have to figure out the ratios and/or divide the amounts listed by the appropiate factor to get the composition of the unit.
On the subject of air units, isn't that hard to figure out, a 36 fighters battallion plus a command element of three fighters, the CO craft, plus two escorts.
If you get other odd numbers (not divisible by 6) it will be due to the inclusion of command lances, or whatever they call it.
And an Omega unit is foot infantry. Though it's debatable wether mechanized infantry units should be counted under this system with the infantry and their APCs as separate units. If that's the case, all the infantry units are footsoldiers, classed as Omega, and their transport are considered a separate unit, with another Greek letter designation.
Hope this helps.
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Memento audare semper
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5724
Location: United States
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| Posted: 15-Apr-2002 14:16 Post subject: Comstar/WOB Level III unit TO&E |
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on the fighters, well vamp covered it pretty good, but heres a second way to figure it:
its a fighter unit of 13 lance sized groups.
if you use the same is thought of fighter lances, half that of mechs, then you get your 39.
so 12 lvl 1's [belives thats there lance], n a command lvl 1.
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Ronin
ComStar
Colonel
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 908
Location: United States
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| Posted: 16-Apr-2002 17:55 Post subject: Comstar/WOB Level III unit TO&E |
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To my knowledge the ComGuard and WoB Militia do not use command lances (or Level IIs to be more accurate) in their TO&E. A Level III unit is simply commanded by the senior Level II commander, etc.
Keep in mind that aside from the base six organization structure, combined arms is also a major part of the doctrine. If you keep that in mind, it shouldn't be too hard to extrapolate from the chart in FM:Comstar. From what I understand, there is no hard and fast rule as to how many of each types of units (mech, vehicle, etc.) are in each Level of unit with a certain Greek letter. One Level II Beta could be 4 mechs and 2 tanks while another could be three mechs and 3 tanks, or whatever. JUst keep in mind that the closer to the start of the alphabet, the more mechs there are, and the closer to the end of the alphabet, the more infantry units there are.
Hope this helps some.
Ronin
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ICER
Clan Hell's Horses
Galaxy Commander
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1663
Location: United States
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| Posted: 17-Apr-2002 13:47 Post subject: Comstar/WOB Level III unit TO&E |
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It answered some of my questions,
Thanks Ronin
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Gunslinger Patch
Royal Black Watch Regiment
Major
Joined: 04-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 1611
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| Posted: 17-Apr-2002 23:46 Post subject: Comstar/WOB Level III unit TO&E |
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I can sit down and do it all right. But inventing 24 different greek letter combinations to describe a 36 unit force is gonna be a pain.
And no, there are no command lances. The Division table adds up to 6 36 unit Level IIIs exactly, including the fighters.
I know that some Level IIs are supposed to be wildly mixed, for example say 3 mechs, 1 vehicle, 1 infantry, 1 fighter. But I was hoping to keep things in 6's to make less of a headache.
And besides I just cannot see aerospace fighters operating in dribs and drabs like above, they need airfields that are very far fewer in number than mechbays and field bases and should rightly operate in groups, as in 6 at a time.
The lance formation needs to be units of like kind for reasons of mobility. For instance, a Striker lance (or regiment) is supposed to be units that are all jump capable. A lance composed of disparate elements will find the terrain often forcing it to fragment and/or leave part of itself behind. Hovercraft don't cruise in the woods, tracked and wheeled vehicles don't jump over ravines and wade through deep rivers alongside the mechs rivers, etc. And an aerospace fighter can't just camp out in the woods with the rest of the lance, it has to go back to the airfield before it runs out of fuel and bites the dust. (I'm assuming those thrust points are still being used up inside an atmosphere.)
Basically it seems there is yet another person out there, this time someone who used to be at FASA, who needs to be found and whopped upside the head while I say to him in a really bad Italian accent, "Ahhh, whatsa matta you?"
[ This Message was edited by: Gunslinger Patch on 2002-04-17 23:50 ]
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"Those who beat their guns into plows will plow for those with guns..." -Thomas Jefferson
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Ronin
ComStar
Colonel
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 908
Location: United States
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| Posted: 19-Apr-2002 23:15 Post subject: Comstar/WOB Level III unit TO&E |
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Fighters are always deployed at least in pairs, if not more. I never said that the TO&E doctrine in use made perfect sense, I just quoted it as I understood it.
Mixing movement types and speeds can be a problem in some terrains, which is why you should do some tweaking of the deployments. I would reduce the number of fighters in a division by 3 so that you get 6 Level II units of fighters. That's a nice round number there. The other three I would allocate as needed so that when you divide the totals of unit types in the division, you can get as close to nice round numbers when you divide by 6 to get the average composition of each Level III, if you wanted each Level III to be roughly the same. Keep in mind that the composition indicated by each Greek letter is not set in stone: a beta unit can just as easily be 5 mechs and one infantry platoon as it can be 4 mechs and 2 tanks or 4 mechs and 2 areospace fighters (gee, where have we seen that configuration before?  ) Yeah, having tracked and hover vehicles in the same unit can be a problem, but if you use them properly, they can complement each other. It won't always work in every situation, but the same goes for units comprised of all alike types.
Just play fast and loose with the TO&E tables. Come up with something that you would *never* field, and then use it anyway. No one else will expect it, and while they are busy laughing you can stomp 'em.
Just remember who beat the Clans at Tukayyid...
Ronin, proud ComGuard member
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