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Storm
Draconis Combine
Chu-i
Joined: 06-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 278
Location: United States
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 Posted: 11-Apr-2005 19:15 Post subject: Any Suggestions on Jet Thrust VTOLs? |
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Greetings all. It's been way to long.
I've been wondering about the VTOL construction and rules. This all started when I got the bright idea to do a Battletech conversion of Airwolf. Anyone not alive by 1983 probably has no clue what I'm talking about.
In addition to that, I picked up a Micro Machines Airial Terminator (from the Terminator movies), and Alien Dropship that I want to use as VTOLs.
The problem lies in the standard rules. Specifically, while my Terminator is a VTOL craft, it ain't got no rotors. It uses 2 tilting jet engines instead. Same for the Alien's ship.
How should I handle this constructionwise and rulewise? It seems brutally unfair to have them crash due to rotor hits when there are no rotors.
Any ideas?
Storm
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Storm  "The More that thou sweatest and swearest in training, the less thou bleedest and diest in combat."--Dick Marcinko
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Motown Scrapper
Clan Ice Hellions
Galaxy Commander
Joined: 24-Jul-2003 00:00
Posts: 2074
Location: United States
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| Posted: 11-Apr-2005 20:23 Post subject: RE: Any Suggestions on Jet Thrust VTOLs? |
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Well I have a VTOL that mirrors the Airwolf Kaman K-6 Airwolf as for your rotorless design just use the rules for conventional fighters and add V/STOL equipment HMAreo does support that equipment and I think Vehicle Factory does too.
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Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2632
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| Posted: 11-Apr-2005 20:26 Post subject: RE: Any Suggestions on Jet Thrust VTOLs? |
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Quote:
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On 2005-04-11 19:15, Storm wrote:
The problem lies in the standard rules. Specifically, while my Terminator is a VTOL craft, it ain't got no rotors. It uses 2 tilting jet engines instead. Same for the Alien's ship.
How should I handle this constructionwise and rulewise? It seems brutally unfair to have them crash due to rotor hits when there are no rotors.
Any ideas?
Storm
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Have you ever looked at the Clan Anhur? It is also a jet thrust VTOL...
Ruger
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4122
Location: United States
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| Posted: 11-Apr-2005 20:29 Post subject: RE: Any Suggestions on Jet Thrust VTOLs? |
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Airwolf had rotors...it would lock them in place if I recall when the jets were used.
The VTOLs don't have to be solely helicoptors they can be tilt-rotor craft or jump jet style as well. So you could use either rule set to make them, by either I mean standard VTOL rules or the conventional figther rules from AT2r and add in the VSTOL equipment.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Storm
Draconis Combine
Chu-i
Joined: 06-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 278
Location: United States
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| Posted: 31-May-2005 19:48 Post subject: RE: Any Suggestions on Jet Thrust VTOLs? |
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I've seen pics of the Anhur. I was just wondering how the rules applied to it.
My Aliens VTOL has been taken out both times I used it due to rotor hits. Crusing along at flank speed (14 or so), 1 level off the ground. . .
It just doesn't seem fair.
Storm
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Storm "The More that thou sweatest and swearest in training, the less thou bleedest and diest in combat."--Dick Marcinko
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Storm
Draconis Combine
Chu-i
Joined: 06-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 278
Location: United States
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| Posted: 31-May-2005 19:51 Post subject: RE: Any Suggestions on Jet Thrust VTOLs? |
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You know, I never thought to look in Aerotech (All I have is version 1). I was considering ignoring rotor hits in combat, and just conting engine hits.
Thanks for the help.
Storm
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Storm "The More that thou sweatest and swearest in training, the less thou bleedest and diest in combat."--Dick Marcinko
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 01-Jun-2005 05:23 Post subject: RE: Any Suggestions on Jet Thrust VTOLs? |
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I can't see big difference between projectile hitting the rotor and projectile flying through jet engine.
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Delta
Lyran Alliance
Leutnant
Joined: 11-Dec-2004 00:00
Posts: 635
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| Posted: 01-Jun-2005 10:27 Post subject: RE: Any Suggestions on Jet Thrust VTOLs? |
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Quote:
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On 2005-06-01 05:23, Sleeping Dragon wrote:
I can't see big difference between projectile hitting the rotor and projectile flying through jet engine.
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When you hit the rotar it falls and crashes. When you hit the jet, it goes BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
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Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 01-Jun-2005 14:16 Post subject: RE: Any Suggestions on Jet Thrust VTOLs? |
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Crashes and goes BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!! too. I don't think that jet engine explodes immediately. It just gets stuck and then the V. T. O. L. crashes and goes BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!
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Khayman
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Corporal
Joined: 14-Nov-2004 00:00
Posts: 91
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| Posted: 01-Jun-2005 14:48 Post subject: RE: Any Suggestions on Jet Thrust VTOLs? |
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| Not just the Anhur, but the Karnov UR Transport as well.
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 01-Jun-2005 14:56 Post subject: RE: Any Suggestions on Jet Thrust VTOLs? |
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Karnov has rotors, just like V 22 Osprey.
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5937
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Jun-2005 21:22 Post subject: RE: Any Suggestions on Jet Thrust VTOLs? |
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as Ruger pointed out in his post, Tilting Jet Engines are already accounted for in the rules. In fact, if you notice, the vehicle construction rules list the componet as Lift/Rotor Equipment. As far as i'm concerned, which is supported by the Clan VTOL, jet tilt engines count as lift equipment and are just as vulnerable as Rotors do to there highly exposed nature.
As for Rotors being to fragile, all you need to do is use the Maxtech lvl3 optional rotor rules that says, i paraphrase, each hit to a rotor no mater the weapon does only 1 point of damage do to it's small and fast moving nature. Even thou it is lvl3 it is a rule that easily should be made lvl1.
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Warhammer: 3025
Freelance
Captain, AFFC (Ret.)
Joined: 29-Jan-2005 00:00
Posts: 1856
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| Posted: 02-Jun-2005 00:09 Post subject: RE: Any Suggestions on Jet Thrust VTOLs? |
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Rotors are, by inherent qualities, easily destroyed.
Imagine a 5-blade rotor assembly. Rotor one is hit and either severs or shatters (both are equally likely). The piece(s) that are now not being powered by the motor have no way to maintain their velocity, and begin to decelerate. Rotor 2 hits the debris, and breaks. Continue the domino effect.
Rotors, when in use, are in a constant state of extreme stress. They are constantly flexing, bending, and torquing. The rotor is designed to withstand these forces, and these forces alone, as trying to armor them against any other force (such as other objects) virtually kills their ability to generate lift. An outside force like a projectile will easily damage or destroy a rotor blade.
Just my logic talking. 
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
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Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 02-Jun-2005 06:27 Post subject: RE: Any Suggestions on Jet Thrust VTOLs? |
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Yes, just try to imagine rotor surviving hit with AC/20 to it's center ... hard to imagine, isn't it?
[ This Message was edited by: Sleeping Dragon on 2005-06-02 06:28 ]
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Storm
Draconis Combine
Chu-i
Joined: 06-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 10-Jun-2005 19:03 Post subject: RE: Any Suggestions on Jet Thrust VTOLs? |
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According to the RoW, engines are critical hits, as opposed to rotor hits.
As I understand it anyway.
Storm
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Storm "The More that thou sweatest and swearest in training, the less thou bleedest and diest in combat."--Dick Marcinko
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