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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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 Posted: 30-Jun-2002 15:45 Post subject: Dual Stage LRM's |
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Dual Stage LRM's
Foreword
This is a rehash of the Tac Handbook Extended Range LRM's. I found the rules and stats governing the ELRM's so bad that I decided to rewrite them and hopefully make them more palatable. These haven't been playtested, but seem straight forward enough to yield predictable results. They won't change the game much.
Development
DS-LRM's are a new development by BOIL-owned arms manufacturers that attempt to give mechs a little better ability to reach out and touch someone. Adopting the same logical progresion as other firms, BOIL decided to increase range by making the LRM rocket motor into a dual stage motor. They have managed to keep DS-LRM launchers the same weight and size as current LRM launchers, as well as maintain the number of missiles per ton. Of course, some concessions had to be made that have limited the missiles overall performance, but test results are encouraging.
Unfortunately, DS-LRM's are incompatible with regular LRM launchers due to their increased volume. Thus, even though the missiles and launchers have the same mass the internal workings of the launchers are built to different specifications, the two systems require their own ammo types.
Like LRM's, SRM's, and MRM's, DS-LRM's are basically point and shoot rockets where all guidance is enacted prior to launch.* As their name implies, the rockets manage to gain extra range through the use of a second stage. Unfortunately the use of the second stage, combined with the shortcuts that were made on the original LRM design in order to maintain the same mass, have caused the missiles to have poor ability to hold trajectories. The result is that the missiles have a tendency to wander off course. So while they do have extended range, their punch has been limited except on the luckiest of occasions.
Currently DS-LRM's are unable to take advantage of any of the advanced guidance systems from the Star League era, but if the demand exists this can be changed.
*Note: While this may not agree with FASA fluff, it is a heck of a lot better explanation for missile performance than anything they have come up with.
Rules
DS-LRM launchers have the same mass and shots per ton as their normal LRM counterparts. The only difference is the range and how to determine the number of missiles that hit.
DS-LRM's ranges are
short: 1-10
medium: 11-20
long: 21-30
To determine the number of missiles that hit
short range: roll 2D6 and check the missile hit table
medium range: roll 3D6 and take the two lowest die
long range: roll 4D6 and take the two lowest die.
DS-LRM's cannot use Artemis, Narc, or any special munitions. LRM ammo and DS-LRM ammo are not compatible. If you want a minimum range then add it.
So what do you think?
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Gangrene
[ This Message was edited by: Gangrene on 2002-06-30 22:55 ]
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Gangrene
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 30-Jun-2002 20:26 Post subject: Dual Stage LRM's |
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I think a minimum range is a must--at least the 6 of normal LRMs--but I could be sold on almost any number should there be a logic to it.
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Raven!
Clan Snow Raven
Galaxy Commander
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 30-Jun-2002 20:58 Post subject: Dual Stage LRM's |
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I say go with six. That way you maintain true to the "original" LRMs.
If I am understanding this right, nothing about the missile has changed accept for the addition for the second stage rocket. So the warhead and arming mechanism is still the same?
EDIT:
Also, if you have two rockets you have two times the rocket fuel (some for the first rocket, and some for the second). So why don't we make things interesting and make it so that if you hit in the first 15 hexes the missile does 1 point of damage, and burning rocket fuel adds 1 heat for the next turn!
Raven!
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[ This Message was edited by: Raven! on 2002-06-30 21:01 ]
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 30-Jun-2002 22:42 Post subject: Dual Stage LRM's |
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To chihawk:
Given that the clans did away with the minimum range on their LRM's, I think the IS would soon follow. If you don't need it on LRM's, then these don't really need it either. But if you ignore the clans (and that's always a popular option), then 6 is a good number.
To Raven:
In order to maintain mass balance the original LRM's were modified and lost some of their usefulness. You could say that, if LRM's had a small gyroscopic stabilization system, it was ditched. Or maybe the hull was made with a less durable but lighter material. Basically the LRM's are not your high performance Swiss LRM's, they're your el-cheapo Taiwan LRM's.
Your idea is not bad, but if Btech armor is as good as its supposed to be I doubt the extra fuel would do anything considerable.
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Gangrene
[ This Message was edited by: Gangrene on 2002-06-30 22:53 ]
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Gangrene
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Kraken
Federated Suns
Marshal
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| Posted: 02-Jul-2002 10:45 Post subject: Dual Stage LRM's |
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Burn damage on vehicles, structures, and armored infantry. It may not do too much on most mechs, but in real life, that burning would be like napalm.
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Ronin
ComStar
Colonel
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
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| Posted: 02-Jul-2002 12:26 Post subject: Dual Stage LRM's |
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Why make a two stage missle when you could just add more fuel and get the same general results? Or do two stage missles have an advantage over single stage missles with the extra fuel (better acceleration in a two stage missle, perhaps)? Just curious.
Ronin
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Ares
Clan Jade Falcon
Star Colonel
Joined: 20-Feb-2002 00:00
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| Posted: 02-Jul-2002 12:47 Post subject: Dual Stage LRM's |
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"Few people know that the sinking of the (I must leave my comp now and I still have not found the exact name of the ship, a heavy cruiser) was not caused by the Exocet missile that smashed into it. The missile failed to detonate, but the remaining fuel still in the motor caused enough of a fire to eventually sink the ship." - Tom Clancy, 'Submarine: A guided tour inside a nuclear warship'
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 02-Jul-2002 21:06 Post subject: Dual Stage LRM's |
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Quote:
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On 2002-07-02 12:26, Ronin wrote:
Why make a two stage missle when you could just add more fuel and get the same general results? Or do two stage missles have an advantage over single stage missles with the extra fuel (better acceleration in a two stage missle, perhaps)? Just curious.
Ronin
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The primary reason would have to be that I was redoing some of FASA's work in Tac Handbook, so I basically borrowed a lot of their fluff.
In real life multiple stage rockets have the advantage of being able to eject the used rocket motor and therefore are more efficient than a similarly sized single motor rocket. The application is generally aimed at achieving height; I've never seen multiple stages used in weapons. Considering the application, simply increasing LRM fuel would be fine. But if it was that easy, you'd think somebody would have done it by now.
One advantage I can see in using multiple stages for a weapon is if the two motors used different fuels to gain better performance. For example, maybe the first stage could be almost gun-like in performance.
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Gangrene
[ This Message was edited by: Gangrene on 2002-07-02 21:12 ]
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Gangrene
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MEX
Clan Blood Spirit
Star Colonel
Joined: 21-Mar-2002 00:00
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| Posted: 03-Jul-2002 03:06 Post subject: Dual Stage LRM's |
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Quote:
| On 2002-06-30 15:45, Gangrene wrote:
...
DS-LRM launchers have the same mass and shots per ton as their normal LRM counterparts. The only difference is the range and how to determine the number of missiles that hit.
DS-LRM's ranges are
short: 1-10
medium: 11-20
long: 21-30
To determine the number of missiles that hit
short range: roll 2D6 and check the missile hit table
medium range: roll 3D6 and take the two lowest die
long range: roll 4D6 and take the two lowest die.
DS-LRM's cannot use Artemis, Narc, or any special munitions. LRM ammo and DS-LRM ammo are not compatible. If you want a minimum range then add it.
So what do you think? |
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I have several problems with your design:
- a greater range without a greater weight of the missile is not acceptable
- a map sheet has only 16x17 hex ! How many map sheets do you want to use for even the simplest scenario with this weapon ? Or do you have acces to a table-top terrain with several meters in diameter ?
- you introduce a new weapon which is not balanced ( its advantages are much bigger than its disadvantages )
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Ronin
ComStar
Colonel
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| Posted: 03-Jul-2002 11:00 Post subject: Dual Stage LRM's |
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Well, the range is not an unbalancing issue as far as I'm concerned since there are plenty of other weapons, notably among the Clans, that can reach past one map board. Before bashing the Clans for unbalancing the game, however, keep in mind that good old LRMs and AC2s from Level 1 Battletech also reach past one map board. Since most map boards have terrain features of some sort somewhere, it is unlikely that someone will be able to use any of these weapos at maximum range without at least some smart positioning. On tabletop games, that's a different story, but again this wouldn't be the only weapon with a range profile that long.
Ronin, who loves the AT&T approach to warfare
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
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Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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| Posted: 03-Jul-2002 11:02 Post subject: Dual Stage LRM's |
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- a greater range without a greater weight of the missile is not acceptable
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Why? The low yield seems to me a fine way of balancing them.
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- a map sheet has only 16x17 hex ! How many map sheets do you want to use for even the simplest scenario with this weapon ? Or do you have acces to a table-top terrain with several meters in diameter ?
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I typically use 2 mapsheets.
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